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LegalGround >> When do you have to talk to Cops?


9/4/08 1:16 PM
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HaMMerHouseFAN
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Here is a scenario:

My parents live ona lake with private roads. My brother pulled out on a 4-wheeler in front of some people who got pissed and called the police. The police came to talk to my dad.

The police said because it was a private road and my brother was over 16 nothing was going to happen but aked my dad for my brothers name, birthday, etc. and then also asked him for my info since I was at the lake.

I am currently in law school and have told my dad it is not wise to talk to the police. When are you able to say I am not going to say anything to you without an attorney no matter if it is material info or not, and what can a cop do if you dont answer his questions?
9/4/08 1:20 PM
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bflex
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You can not talk whenever you want. What can they do? Make shit up and arrest you for shits and giggles.
9/4/08 1:30 PM
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Fake Pie
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You never have to talk to the police. Only way you can be compelled to talk is in front of a grand jury or at trial or another such courtroom proceeding (i.e., by a judge).

They might get all pissy and arrest you but so what.
9/4/08 1:41 PM
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HaMMerHouseFAN
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I heard you have to tell them your identity but is that it? I would also prefer not to go to jail and have to get an attorney to fight that even knowing i was right.
9/4/08 4:50 PM
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StephenL
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as they live on a lake with private roads, do you know the people your brother pissed off? why would they call the cops over just one incident?

your dad should've offered the cops some poles cause they were phishing.
9/4/08 4:59 PM
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HaMMerHouseFAN
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I definitely agree they were phishing because they said they had gotten some calls (they only go up on the weekends), however he did pull out in front of some people a couple of hours before the police came to the house.
9/4/08 9:00 PM
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jbapk
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You have to give them/tell them your ID, and they can detain you so you can't leave, you never "have" to talk to them.
9/5/08 5:19 PM
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Fake Pie
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You do not have to give them any form of ID unless you are driving a motor vehicle in which case you of course need a valid driver's license.

The Court in Hiibel said that a state may by law require you to identify yourself if the cop has reasonable suspicion (enough for a Terry stop). If your state has such a law you have to state your name, but you do not have to provide any form of identification. The Court tossed those kinds of laws in previous cases.
9/8/08 9:55 PM
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StephenL
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I have this in my car in open view.

http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/dwb%20bust%20card7_04.pdf
12/25/08 10:39 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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you don't have to say anything...as long as you're absolutely sure there isn't anything they can arrest you or give you a ticket for (past, present or future).

and just because you can't think of anything they can arrest you for, doesn't mean they can't.

sounds like they were trying to be nice to you and just needed the info for their report. don't act like a jackass unless you feel like being treated like one.
12/25/08 10:40 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/25/08 10:44 PM
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bflex - You can not talk whenever you want. What can they do? Make shit up and arrest you for shits and giggles.


why would we ever have to make up stuff, when there are 8 legit things you can grab a fool for? sounds like they were cutting you a break on the Driving to Endanger charge, why would you want to be an asshole to them?.
12/25/08 10:44 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/25/08 10:57 PM
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double
12/26/08 1:21 PM
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bflex
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Gannon - I love the police. No disrespect intended. I like it when you arrest both the guilty and the innocent. Either way, they have to pay me. If you guys fuck up, oh well, I get paid. If it is a good stop/arrest, oh well, I get paid.

You guys are my job security.
12/26/08 5:43 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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bflex - Gannon - I love the police. No disrespect intended. I like it when you arrest both the guilty and the innocent. Either way, they have to pay me. If you guys fuck up, oh well, I get paid. If it is a good stop/arrest, oh well, I get paid.

You guys are my job security.



LOL i've been reading a bunch of your posts on here, you're quite a character! :) if you've got some especial highlights, bump them to the top, i'd love to read them.
12/27/08 10:05 AM
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HaMMerHouseFAN
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GladiatorGannon - 
bflex - You can not talk whenever you want. What can they do? Make shit up and arrest you for shits and giggles.


why would we ever have to make up stuff, when there are 8 legit things you can grab a fool for? sounds like they were cutting you a break on the Driving to Endanger charge, why would you want to be an asshole to them?.


I wasn't trying to be an asshole or anything. I'm currently in law school and was told any attorney worth his salt will tell his client not to say anything to the police without an attorney present. My dad also tends to have diarrea of the mouth and says things in 10 words when 1 will do.
12/27/08 2:04 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/29/08 12:01 AM
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HaMMerHouseFAN - 
GladiatorGannon - 
bflex - You can not talk whenever you want. What can they do? Make shit up and arrest you for shits and giggles.


why would we ever have to make up stuff, when there are 8 legit things you can grab a fool for? sounds like they were cutting you a break on the Driving to Endanger charge, why would you want to be an asshole to them?.


I wasn't trying to be an asshole or anything. I'm currently in law school and was told any attorney worth his salt will tell his client not to say anything to the police without an attorney present. My dad also tends to have diarrea of the mouth and says things in 10 words when 1 will do.

i hear attorneys say this all the time, but you've got to realize where they're coming from. 100% of everyone they talk to are the people that FAILED to talk their way out of a situation, or they wouldn't be in the office.

remember, if you take their advice literally, you're pretty much giving up your right to defend yourself and your family: someone attacks you or your family, you defend yourself/them, they claim you were the agressor (almost every fight i've ever responded to, it's always the other guys fault). without access to the full facts of the situation, the cops are pretty much forced to arrest you.

the system has a momentum all it's own, and once it's grinding down on you, it ain't fun. better off having it pointing in the right direction.

there are a lot of other examples, but this is one.

if you're guilty, scratch the above advice and STFU.
12/27/08 6:26 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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^well intended but incorrect.
12/27/08 6:40 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/27/08 6:42 PM
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BarkLikeADog - ^well intended but incorrect.


would like to hear your reasoning. mine is based on thousands of citizen/police interactions over my 12 year career, and observing numerous people who improved their situation by communicating with the police.

how would you handle a self defense situation like the one i outlined above?
12/27/08 7:35 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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^I would start by not giving incident-specific advice to a broad audience who will apply it to the broadest set of scenarios.
12/27/08 8:08 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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GladiatorGannon - 
how would you handle a self defense situation like the one i outlined above?


BarkLikeADog - ^I would start by not giving incident-specific advice to a broad audience who will apply it to the broadest set of scenarios.



i assume that means you don't have a good answer to the question i posted above.

my advice is solid, i would certainly hope people would listen to it.

Shut the F&*k Up if you're guilty - sounds pretty solid to me.

the "Never talk to the police" dogma isn't always true, and here is an example to prove my point.

the number one guy giving advice to a "broad audience" that will apply it to the "broadest set of scenarios" is his professor. i felt the need to set the record straight and provide some more accurate info that might save the kid some aggravation in the future.
12/27/08 8:20 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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^His generic advice is far better than yours. There are numerous reasons why, but you know as well as I that we aren't going to cover them in any meaningful way here. I don't want to bog down this subforum; endless emotionally-charged debate is for the OG, not the legalground.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree.
12/27/08 8:38 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/27/08 8:41 PM
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BarkLikeADog - ^His generic advice is far better than yours. There are numerous reasons why, but you know as well as I that we aren't going to cover them in any meaningful way here. I don't want to bog down this subforum; endless emotionally-charged debate is for the OG, not the legalground.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree.


i'm sorry our debate got you emotional. i would be grateful if you calmed down enough to engage in a reasoned debate with me. i had my facts wrong on another LegalGround thread, you corrected me, and i was grateful because I learned something. intelligent discussion doesn't "bog down a forum" it's what MAKES a forum.
12/28/08 10:03 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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^I'm not emotional. I meant that any debate we have will be heavily biased towards personal anecdotal evidence that is not reflective of the big picture, & not anything substantive that will help the original poster make any sense of anything.

Watch this, all the way through, for specifics. Sorry it's so long, but law is complex, & summarizing won't help the original poster, either.

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html
12/28/08 10:46 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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Edited: 12/28/08 11:29 PM
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BarkLikeADog - ^I'm not emotional. I meant that any debate we have will be heavily biased towards personal anecdotal evidence that is not reflective of the big picture, & not anything substantive that will help the original poster make any sense of anything.

Watch this, all the way through, for specifics. Sorry it's so long, but law is complex, & summarizing won't help the original poster, either.

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html


I watched it last time it was posted here. I disagreed with them on that thread and we had an interesting discussion about it. little anecdotal evidence and not very emotional either :)

I'm sorry you had nothing to argue with but anecdotal evidence, I had a lot of facts and logic i wanted to use.

and you still haven't answered my question about how you would handle a self defense scenario.

*edited to add my "stairway wit"*
12/29/08 1:27 AM
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BarkLikeADog
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If you read the other thread, you've already read everything I have to say about the topic. I have nothing new to add & I doubt you do, either. If you do, feel free to start a new thread on the OG. You seem extremely primed for a vigorous debate & I will not give you one here. I don't think that's what this subforum is for & I don't see how it will help this thread in any way.

I can't decline any more politely than that.

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