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10/21/08 2:09 PM
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Dojosensei
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Shit guys, I have no reason to be uncivil in this, it's a conversation, not a political debate.

I've sat in court rooms many times watching, it was required for classes in criminal justice in college. I've had friends that were dead guilty in cases, I've had friends that were innocent as fuck but the prosecution had an "eye witness". AND ABSOLUTELY I agree that most "rapes" are morning after regret or hubby or boyfriend or relative walked in on it and then all of a sudden it becomes rape.

Basically...let me ask how YOU would handle this, as an example. My roommate back in the day was fucked and thrown in jail for a yr for this shit and I know for a fact he didn't do it and testified as such...here you go...

Roommate was seeing a chick, she left her hubby and kids for my roommate, the hubby was abusive and at one time they were all friends. Was he wrong in this, YES but he's a guy, pussy is pussy. Anyway, the hubby starts harassing my roommate, the kids start the same, my buddy wants nothing to do with it, he just wants the chick, nothing else.

So the hubby starts blackmailing the wife (ex wife now) that she can't see the kids if she's still with him. Ok, she's stupid, he can't do that in KS but again, she's stupid. So she stops seeing my roommate, hard breakup but he says "hey, if she's happy that's all that counts" but we all know what that means.

Anyway, they start following him calling the cops saying he's stalking them. They have more people testifying that he is doing it and since he's alone, no one is there to say he wasn't. They get a restraining order then continue the same shit. He gets arrested for violating the restraining order. He ends up spending all of his money getting bailed out and dealing with shit so when it came time for his car tag renewal, he didn't have the money. I said, ok, your work is on my way to the lab, I'll just start dropping you off and picking you up, not a big deal.

They get my buddy's ex girlfriend to get a restraining order as well. This is where it bites him in the ass. He's arrested again for a violation of a restraining order ON HER this time. Her witness...."her boss" at work. Says he say someone resembling my buddy in a small red car putting something on her car window.

This occurred in November, his tags expired in October. I testified that I had driven him everywhere and was his only form of transportation. The prosecutoring attorney and the cunt that she was (which is every fucking prosecutor I've ever met) asked me what day of the week that day fell on. Fuck, no clue, I don't have a calendar in front of me but it doesn't matter, I've driven him to work and home since the first of November.

So once they realized he wasn't "driving" they changed that and the red car was no longer mentioned but instead now he had done it ON FOOT. Was there a "note" yes, was it from that day or from some other day while they were still together, no one knows, not dated.

So basically the court took this guy's testimony and even though now the red car no longer existed still convicted my buddy after the story changed in the fucking courtroom. He spent a yr in jail over this shit. After he got out, they started this whole thing again, he ended up going away for another yr and a half. He finally moved out of state to get away from it all. Lost 2 good jobs in the process.

So yeah, I see a definite NEED for defense attorneys that call bullshit when they see it. The only part of it I question is the time you know your client is guilty and would you feel bad if you got them out and they killed someone else the next day?

Anyway, on with the civil conversation.
10/21/08 3:10 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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Edited: 10/21/08 3:21 PM
Member Since: 10/11/05
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^While I'll CERTAINLY agree that this thread has had some unusually abrasive moments for this subforum, just playing devil's advocate, I have to say that it doesn't appear that you've put much thought into it, either. Not to be rude.

Let's say you've been framed. All the evidence points to you. Anyone in their right mind would conclude that you did it. But you didn't. Can you see how allowing defense attorneys to vote their conscience would directly interfere with your Constitutional right to a fair trial?

Bottom line, there is a greater good to be served by protecting the innocent at the expense of occasionally benefitting the guilty, as opposed to occasionally harming the innocent in order to ensure justice is always served on the guilty, & that's recognized in the Constitution.
10/21/08 3:30 PM
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ViewType
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Moral judgments aside, it is impossible to KNOW if your client is guilty. Physical evidence can be faked or misinterpreted, experts can be wrong, witnesses lie and/or make mistakes, and confessions can be (and often are) coerced. In high-pub cases, the cops will withhold a few key details from the public because you will always get some looney who confesses to it just for the fame, and they'll swear the same thing to their lawyer.

That's why the standard for conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Knowledge is impossible.
10/21/08 3:57 PM
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Dojosensei
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Not a matter of "putting thought into it" it's a matter of that damned general baptist upbringing lurking around in the back of my head haha.

Personally, I don't have a problem justifying just about anything and can see your argument in defending and upholding the constitution. Where the line is skewed for me on that is I've had good female friends raped, not next morning regret but they were slipped da roof and weren't drinking alcohol. Had another that was forcefully raped and black and blue from the ass whippin they took trying to stop it.

Defense attorneys got both of the "offenders" off, don't remember how, it's been 10+ yrs. I think that's where natural justice prevails in the end. But then, like I said, for me, that's where the line is skewed just a bit. other than that, I have no respect for the justice system or the prosecutors that offer pleas for anything. If they did it great, convict them but you wanted an easier job so you offered a plea, saved the state a bit of money etc...

I would say I have a worse view of prosecutors than i do defense attorneys. I've seen just how ruthless a prosecutor can be when they fried my roommate over bullshit charges.

OH...this is the one that I absolutely LOVE... DWI/DUI checkpoints. They pull you over, 'what are you doing out this late?"...like it's your fucking business. "where are you going?" Your mama's house. "where are you coming from?"...your sisters house. Have you had anything to drink tonight? fuck yeah, I'm drinking something right now, it's called a fucking coke you bitch.

I went through one of those once and just got all sexual with the cop. Told him I loved a man in uniform and I could think of many things we could do with those cuffs, he got me out of there pretty quick.
10/23/08 11:23 PM
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Shaz
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No offense but you sound like an idiot. "Most" rapes are BS? That's a pretty dangerous attitude to have. But of course that doesn't include your good female friends who were victims? And you hate prosecutors, but scumbags shouldn't get defense attorneys to represent them (if we had no prosecutors, how would these real bad guys go to jail?)

My advice - straighten up and get off the dope.

-Shaz!
10/23/08 11:49 PM
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Dojosensei
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Am not and have never tried dope, sorry man.

Yep, most rapes are BS...very well could have been in the case of my friends as well, they may have just liked rough sex, who knows.

Either way, you take a bitch out, dinner, movie, drinks better be some booty by the end of the night...

Real rape is few and far between.
10/25/08 10:50 AM
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bflex
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As for rape, I have seen BS cases and I have seen legit. Haven't done too too much in the way of sex cases so I couldn't give what I believe to be an accurate percentage. Some BS some legit is the best I can give. I have personally known of two BS rape cases. One charges got dropped, one the guy went to prison and it got overturned on appeal. Those weren't as a lawyer. Two friends got accused.

As far as personal experience, well, I hate to talk about this, but two girls I went to college with accused me of "trying" to rape them. It was bullshit. I didn't do anything wrong and I never got charged. Only one went to the police. The thing that I keep in mind now is that it was a Southern Baptist College and when girls got caught fucking around with a guy, they screamed rape and everybody rallied to their side of the arguement. Oddly enough I only fucked around with one of those girls. The other one, I fucked her roommate, had a falling out with her roommate and the next thing you know, I am getting called into the deans office with the entire administration and the campus police. I got questioned about my "attempted sexual assault" on this girl.

At the end of the day, her story just didn't match up. I had a strong alibi, credible witnesses to the alibi and it just didn't make sense that this 110lbs girl fought off the 185lb steroid using wrestler. She also said that she had to scratch my face and poke me in the eyes to get away. I had no injuries. No marks at all. Fuck her. I hope she dies a painful death.

The biggest bunch of bullshit cases in my opinion are domestic violence cases. I've changed my opinion on the stats. Here is my opinion: 60% are isolated incidents which should be worked through as a family. These guys are not wife beaters. Legitimate remorse. They don't need court intervention. 35% straight bullshit revenge. 5% are serious situations which need court intervention.
10/25/08 8:19 PM
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Dojosensei
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I'd agree with that. Saw quite a few times even personally where the ex wife would follow me through the house trying to stop me from walking away, smacking me in the back of the head calling me a pussy. Did she deserve the ass whippin, YEP, did she get one, HELL NO.

Most of that shit is a point blank set up by the bitch in the relationship. They do whatever they want, you stand up to them, all of a sudden they have you thrown in jail for assault or DV. Just not worth the bullshit and women are vindictive as shit. Then they own you, take everything you have etc... Friend of mine got fucked over that way.

I agree with you Bflex, some bitches just need to die a slow painful death...perferrably natural causes though, not into smacking a woman myself.

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