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UnderGround Forums >> Seriously, how is A. Silva better P4P than Fedor?


10/28/08 3:51 AM
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MMAmike
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First off, no, this thread does not have to do with Silva’s performance against Cote. What it does have to do with is this statement he made after the fight: "I apologized because I've trained really hard with my trainers for five rounds," said Silva. "I dropped down from 230 pounds to 205 pounds to 185 pounds. So, I worked my butt off.”

Fedor himself weighs in between 224 and 233 lbs for his fights (approximately the same weight), and is even several inches shorter. Yet while Anderson Silva has made his name destroying opponents in the 185 lbs division, Fedor has done so (looking equally dominant – and for longer) facing off against men his own size, and very frequently, MUCH larger (sometimes by nearly 200 lbs).

So while both may be dominating champions, given that the two are about the same size (in weight), how is it that there is any problem deciding who is P4P better when one of the two (A. Silva) has established himself by beating contenders that are fighting at 185, while the other (Fedor) has done so by demolishing contenders between 230 and 400 lbs?
10/28/08 3:53 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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it's simple - he's not.
10/28/08 3:55 AM
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EKPOGI
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he's more active?
10/28/08 3:58 AM
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Attila
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What do you expect Dana White to say? Besides, I don't think it's too far from the truth. Anderson Silva officially fights at 185, while Fedor fights at 230. Given that weight disparity, the case can be made. "Pound for pound" is a poorly defined concept at best, anyway.
10/28/08 4:01 AM
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MMAmike
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EKPOGI - he's more active?


If you define being best P4P by how active you are, does that make Jeremy Horn, Travis Fulton and Shannon "the Cannon" some of the best P4P of all time?
10/28/08 4:04 AM
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MMAmike
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Attila - What do you expect Dana White to say? Besides, I don't think it's too far from the truth. Anderson Silva officially fights at 185, while Fedor fights at 230. Given that weight disparity, the case can be made. "Pound for pound" is a poorly defined concept at best, anyway.


I don't really care what Dana says about Anderson Silva-- he has his reasons, and I'd probably claim that Anderson was the best if I was in his shoes too (though I find it infuriating that he shits all over someone like Sylvia, who was one of his most loyal fighters, for coming up short against Fedor)

What I'm surprised about is how people in general--and in particular on this forum--who are not Zuffa employees have reached this conclusion!
10/28/08 4:13 AM
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GC111
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People who think A. Silva > Fedor as of now are idiots or are biased.
10/28/08 6:48 AM
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MMAmike
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ttt
10/28/08 7:58 AM
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clattymine
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seriously ... why do you fucking care? it's not real.
10/28/08 9:53 AM
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cristianjp
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Edor since 2006: Tim Sylvia, Hong Man Choi, Matt Lindland Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman.

Silva since 2006: Patrick Cote, James Irvin(205), Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin(2), Nate Marquardt, Travis Lutter, Rich Franklin, Chris Leben.
10/28/08 10:20 AM
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uglee
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It's been said before that fedors greatest strengh is his ability to transition seemlessly however when you acutally break down his game. Striking yes he's heavy handed but no were close to silvas tech. ability I acutally don't believe he's that good of a tech. striker. BJJ I have personaly never seen him on his back except when hunt had him sidemounted and almost got that key lock. Anderson is good but not top leval very close however. wrestling I wouldn't call ethier one a great wrestler nor would I call ethier a bad wrestler. so striking edge anderson, bjj edge anderson, wrestling push, athleteism edge fedor, transitions edge fedor. so if you break it down like that and if you agree with me then you get 2-2-1 with a draw on there actuall skill sets however when you factor in the comp anderson gets the edge. However Fedor seems to be stepping up is comp leval and if he beats arlovski and barnett within the next year then he goes back on top. IMO the top 4 anderson fedor Gsp and bj are all very close.
10/28/08 10:29 AM
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Mr. Malcolm
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 Cause he'd win in a dance off...straight serve Fedor....that and Fedor of recent is a glorifide can opener. And yes, Tim is a can...always was.   Now, PRIDE Fedor,...different story.
10/28/08 10:38 AM
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BJ > DORKUS
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 Because Anderson has utterly destroyed the absolute best fighters in his division, all in a row, without breaking a sweat.

Tim Sylvia is the best fighter Fedor has *ever* finished, and most seem to think Tim sucks and squeaks out his wins solely by being tall. Fedor has not fought many of the good fighters in his division -- no Barnett, Arlovski, Kharitonov, Overeem, Werdum, etc -- and never came close to finishing Crocop (and it's not because Crocop is especially hard to finish, as Nog, Gonzaga, and even Randleman have shown).

Talking about Anderson's 4-year old losses in this discussion is ridiculous, because we're not talking about who has had the best career. We're talking about who, NOW, is the best p4p fighter. Anderson, Fedor, and GSP all belong in that discussion with excellent arguments for each.
10/28/08 10:41 AM
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BigJohn71
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In boxing it's always the lighter guys who get voted best pound for pound boxer, I think that's why Dana keeps saying he's the best pond for pound, not the best fighter.
10/28/08 11:18 AM
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BJ > DORKUS
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 "In boxing it's always the lighter guys who get voted best pound for pound boxer"

It's not because they're lighter, it's because the lighter boxers are usually the best -- the most skilled, the best conditioned, etc.
10/28/08 12:25 PM
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olafwd
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Edited: 10/28/08 1:29 PM
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"BJJ I have personaly never seen him on his back except when hunt had him sidemounted and almost got that key lock"

Actually Fedor has said that he's never done BJJ at all, so the advantage in BJJ definitely goes to Anderson. On the other hand, the advantage in sambo and judo goes to Fedor. On the ground Fedor is definitely much more dangerous because of his GnP (Big Nog can probably attest to that). This is especially true because Fedors throws are much better than Andersons - Fedor is on top more often than he's on the bottom.

BTW, that keylock was never close to being on, watch Fedor's shoulder. And as soon as Hunt shifted to put it on properly Fedor escaped - basically Fedor was just being Fedor, waiting in a safe position until his opponent committed.The main difference is in their mental game. Fedor never panics, changes his tactics on the fly like no one else in the game. Which is why he's never lost except to an illegal cut. Anderson, though he's extremely good, has lost.

The biggest strike against Fedor is that he wasn't as active against top fighters as Anderson was in the last few years. But if you look at the last 12 months that's no longer the case - Henderson, Cote and Irving aren't notibly better competition than Sylvia and Choi, though I suppose Anderson has fought 3 times to Fedor's 2 in the last 12 months.Though if you go by what's been done recently (ie the last 12 months) arguably the best fighter is neither Anderson or Fedor, but GSP.
10/28/08 2:56 PM
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Samoanpowr
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Fedor has been on his back plent of times.  Hunt had him on his back and both subs of Coleman were from his back.  He's comfortable wherever.  He ended up on his back after Randleman put him on his head.  The Collegiate All American wrestler held him on his back for about 3 seconds before he got reversed and then submitted several seconds later.

Samoa.
10/28/08 3:06 PM
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303
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Silva fights more often in various weight classes, is not picky on his opponets, and has shown the ability to beat the best guys in the world with ease at his weight as well as showing the potential to do so in the 205lb division. I would not rank Fedor ahead of Silva, or Bj Penn for that matter. I think both guys are more talented than Fedor.



303
10/28/08 3:06 PM
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BJ > DORKUS
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 Hunt, Coleman, Herring, Randleman, Arona, Choi, and Nogueira have all put Fedor on his back.
10/28/08 3:16 PM
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rhino x2
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IMO Fedor is better. Has fought better fighters.
Minotauro is #2 hvy weight and Fedor beat him 2x.
He has beat Coleman,Randelmann,Sylvia all former ufc champions. mino current ufc champion. Semmy S.. KOP and K1 champion, has beat a prime CroCop(when he was destroying all) Hunt, Lindland etc... Throw in some freak shows and I cant see how anyone cant see Fedors dominance.

Ive been a MMA fan for over 10 years.

I think Fedor is P4P the best.

Sakuraba, Dan Henderson, Mark Kerr, Igor V. Hughes and Royce Gracie and now Anderson Silva are the only ones who have came close to his dominance IMO. Maybe you could put Penn and a few others up there

BJ Penn although talented, has failed due to cardio. GSP and Hughes beat Penn, convincingly.

Silva has been beaten, submitted in the past. FEDOR has not.
LOST in MMA except a doctor stoppage.

Fedor IMO is clearly the best p4p mma'r ever and if he fights Arlovski. That will further cement that. Another UFC champion on the bed post.
10/28/08 3:27 PM
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Brunod
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45cal - 
cristianjp - Edor since 2006: Tim Sylvia, Hong Man Choi, Matt Lindland Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman.

Silva since 2006: Patrick Cote, James Irvin(205), Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin(2), Nate Marquardt, Travis Lutter, Rich Franklin, Chris Leben.



Excellent post

Fedor only fights cans!!!!!!!!



LOL at those guys being cans.....Tim Sylvia(ex ufc heavyweight champ) HMC (can),Matt Lindland(fought for ufc middleweight title and is an olympic silver medalist) Mark Hunt(k1 World Grand Prix champion,wkbf australian superheavyweight champion) Mark Coleman (ex ufc heavyweight champion,PRIDE openweight grand prix champion)

yeah...all cans hahahahaha
10/28/08 3:30 PM
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xakx
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He is NOT.
10/28/08 3:45 PM
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stlnl2
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What does Anderson's "lazy" weight of 230 have to do with anything? I am sure that is his "fat" weight. I also dont doubt when Fedor is on vacation, taking it easy/not training (I wonder sometimes if he takes breaks from training) he is heavier than 230ish as he isnt training at the same pace.

Good cases can be made for both guys, but an "off season" weight IMO has no bearing on the discussion.
10/28/08 3:47 PM
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WatchinMMA
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303 - Silva fights more often in various weight classes, is not picky on his opponets, and has shown the ability to beat the best guys in the world with ease at his weight as well as showing the potential to do so in the 205lb division. I would not rank Fedor ahead of Silva, or Bj Penn for that matter. I think both guys are more talented than Fedor.



303

exactly. fedors has only fought pick em fights for the last few years against mostly cans. I still have a hard time putting him in a top 10 HW list, even after his silvia fight
10/28/08 3:50 PM
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stlnl2
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WatchinMMA - 
303 - Silva fights more often in various weight classes, is not picky on his opponets, and has shown the ability to beat the best guys in the world with ease at his weight as well as showing the potential to do so in the 205lb division. I would not rank Fedor ahead of Silva, or Bj Penn for that matter. I think both guys are more talented than Fedor.



303

exactly. fedors has only fought pick em fights for the last few years against mostly cans. I still have a hard time putting him in a top 10 HW list, even after his silvia fight



Really? who were all these cans he was fighting? As for talent, I think its pretty obvious a guy who can consistently dominate top HWs and give up weight at the same time is pretty damned talented.

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