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HolyGround >> Year of JUBILEE


11/9/08 9:19 PM
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clean livin'
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Looking in the Old Testament, and applying these principles to my life and world, is about forgiving debts. Could this be applied, in today's economic crisis, to effectively relieve pressure?
11/10/08 3:34 PM
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CJJScout
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LOL!

This is funny to me because I didn't know anything about this til college and one of my roommates was telling me about it. It was so funny the way he explained it and the context. Everytime I hear about it I see him jumping around and yelling "Jubilee" in a stupid voice.

Good times.
11/19/08 5:21 PM
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ironmongoose
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The concept of applying debt forgiveness in order to prevent families and generations from sliding into intractable poverty is a good one. Legislating it as being every seven or 49 years might not work for pluralistic societies who do not comprise a "nation of priests" the way God intended Israel to be.
11/20/08 5:13 PM
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clean livin'
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Awesome answer, Mongoose. My Grandad practiced the cycling of fields every 7 yrs for conservation purposes. It worked for huge crop yields.

Looking at this economic crisis, it very well may take some "forgiveness" to actually turn a page.
11/23/08 11:57 PM
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ironmongoose
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Thx. If we as Christians honour God, we should consider the rationale behind that law, and be looking for ways to put the concept into practice in a way that works for our society. It'd wreak hell on our mutual funds, but would help establish a more compassionate, sustainable, and God-honouring world, which ultimately holds more hope for our future than how much we've got in the bank.
1/12/11 3:16 PM
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ironmongoose
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By the way, there is no historical evidence that the Year of Jubilee was EVER put into practice by the nation of Israel, at any time.
1/13/11 10:20 AM
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CJJScout
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ironmongoose - By the way, there is no historical evidence that the Year of Jubilee was EVER put into practice by the nation of Israel, at any time.

Yeah, they didn't put a lot of things in practice.
1/13/11 3:11 PM
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reverend john
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I have a lot to say about this bit can't right now

Rev
1/13/11 5:02 PM
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CJJScout
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What? Don't keep us waiting!
1/13/11 6:01 PM
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LoveToChoke
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This is a complex topic, but I think people need to take a measure of self-responsibility. You can't have the big house, new cars and plasma tv just because you want it.

That doesn't excuse unscrupulous practices by loan managers however, and there needs to be more regulation (or at least an enforcement of existing regulations) to ensure this doesn't happen again.

All that said, debt is not a bad thing. Debt allows people to own houses, build businesses etc. Our modern society would not be possible without debt.
1/14/11 12:05 AM
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reverend john
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sorry, I believe strongly in sabbath economics, including the fulfillment of God's economy in the words and teaching of Jesus.

I will try and do some in depth talk about this as soon as possible, but I am really busy for the next few days, just finished two pipe commissions, finished a painting, and have to prepare and hang my daughters first solo art show. Then I have to finish my friends office remodel.

rev
1/15/11 4:44 PM
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CJJScout
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Just for the record rev, I don't approve of actual work and family taking precedent over HolyGround musings.
1/31/11 9:32 PM
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reverend john
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I am sorry I have fallen short

will try and write some stuff up this week, had to fly to New York and drive home with Generick last weekend, still just catching up

rev
4/18/11 5:54 PM
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CJJScout
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Cleaning out old threads, wanted to get the rev's take on this.
4/18/11 8:05 PM
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reverend john
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Ok I will try and carve out some time tomorrow our church gathering is tonight

Rev
4/20/11 9:25 AM
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reverend john
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The jubilee was part of an economy that God commanded Israel to live under. If you look at this economic plan, it is quite different from capitalism. It is also quite different from modern socialist or communist ideologies as well. My friend and mentor Ched Myers calls it, Sabbath economics. The jubilee, is part of this system. In fact, it could be seen as the pinnacle of this system.

Sabbath economics, far from being "old testament law" become the vibrant heart of a new kind of life, within the kingdom of God. Jesus announces his ministry with the declaration that now is the "acceptable year of the Lord" or the "year of the Lord's favor" Now, if you just take that as, a generic old testament quote saying "woo hoo the messiah is here" you miss the deeper more "jewish" meanings implied in this text. Jesus is in fact calling upon the tradition of the jubilee. The jubilee was, the year of the Lords favor. And we then see the illustration of what that year means, the captives are set free, the poor are exalted etc. Jesus is saying either one of two things, "a new jubilee is starting here and now" or even more profoundly, "I am the personification of the jubilee, and it is come in me here and now"

more later

rev
4/20/11 9:44 AM
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CJJScout
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Good stuff, keep it coming.
4/20/11 9:16 PM
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Ridgeback
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 Obama kind of practiced jubilee economics with banks and corporations. 
4/20/11 11:53 PM
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reverend john
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Actually he practiced the reverse

rev
4/21/11 12:39 AM
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Ridgeback
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 I know. I was being snarky since it is obvious he is a whore for the wealthy.  People don't get elected to positions of power without being bought and paid for.  
4/21/11 3:11 AM
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LoveToChoke
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Ridgeback, Whether he is or not (I don't think he is since he tried to raise taxes on the rich) it makes no difference since he has to work in a system where the wealthy and corporations have far too much influence, and citizens cannot really compete. Apart from religious groups the only other organisations that supported the rights of average workers are unions - and look how much they are demonized. Phone Post
4/21/11 9:25 AM
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reverend john
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I think Obama is just like anyone else who is in high goverment, corrupted. However, I do not believe his reasons for bailing out the banks were because he is a whore to the rich, the wall street bastards are not the ones that supported him

rev
4/21/11 12:40 PM
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inlikeflynn
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TARP was started under the Bush admin. That being said, my general feeling regarding Obama (whom I voted for) is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
4/21/11 2:19 PM
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CJJScout
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How did this take a political turn?
4/21/11 4:22 PM
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reverend john
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Economics are political

But I will be back with more probably on Sunday

Rev

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