UnderGround Forums
 

PetGround >> the prong


11/15/08 10:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5397
 
I've been thinking about purchasing one.

I was introduced to the choke chain about two months ago in obedience class. I don't dislike it per se, but I don't like it dropping so low on the neck and having to apply force to the trachea. I think the prong might be the more human option, especially for my little dog. Maybe I'm wrong?

Anyways, I assumed I would have to order a mini from online since I have a small dog (~ 15lbs.), but when I measured where it should fit it's ~ 11". They sell 14" in the local pet shops, so I might be better off just getting a small and removing as many links as needed for a snug fit.

I've been using the following site for some info http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm

This has a video that I found useful
http://leerburg.com/prong.htm

They also have some quick-release prong collars, but I doubt the extra money is really worth the few extra seconds.

Just looking for some thoughts on prong collars from the community here.
11/16/08 12:23 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10117

A common mistake for most people regarding the choke collar is fitting it too loosely. Shouldn't be drooping down to the base of the dog's neck and shoulders when not constricting. There should be no more than two inches of slack in the collar at all times, in order for it to automatically release when constriction stops(ie: 5 inches of slack will 'stick' after the correction is given...bad!) and so the collar itself remains around the dog's throat.

That said, the prong is superior to the choke collar in every way. Better, safe fit and more effective correction.

But you're correct with regard to sizing the prong. The rule is to use/fit the largest collar you can by removing the number of prongs needed for it to fit securely. Meaning, steer clear of the mini/micro minis on all but the smallest breeds. If you can get away with a regular prong in a small collar size, that's your play.

Steer clear of the quick release...totally opposite of the collar's intention. Honestly, I don't even know why they make them except to calm the nerves of fragile individuals who are better off owning gold fish.

I wouldn't buy a prong from places like petsmart if you can help it. I know they're cheaper and maybe you're thinking that with such a small dog it doesn't matter, but that savings in money equates to an inferior product and possible equipment failure at the worst time(s). Better off buying a Herm Sprenger collar online. Far better equipment that will last you the life of your dog...might even be able to find a local seller(for all I know places like petsmart are selling them now, too).

11/16/08 6:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caderona
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/25/08
Posts: 8
i love the prong collar. my dog is so much stronger than me, and he likes to pull if he see's someone walking by us. it's been amazing for leash training, also. my dog started making a lot of progress since i started training him with it. he freaked out a lot when i first put it on, but now he understands. it's been hard though, he pulls a lot when he's not wearing his prong--i'm sort of stuck right now. i'd love to just walk him with his regular collar but he always ends up pulling and i know it's damaging his throat.
11/17/08 5:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5400
Thanks for sharing. Anyone else have any experience with the prong collar?
11/18/08 2:57 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10160
Was looking at some of the quick-release collars today. The ones that use the same kind of snap hooks used on leads aren't bad, actually. Not as strong as solid chain links but you shouldn't run into trouble with a smaller dog. Much more convenient then traditional fastening.

However, those French snap hooks, or whatever they're called, where you squeeze the sides together to open the hook? Fagetaboutit!!
11/19/08 1:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeZev
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/15/02
Posts: 9584
I thought i posted on this thread the other day but i guess not. for my dog, the prong was like magic. it was that little extra that got her to where she needed to be. i took it off her too soon on the solo walks but i still use it when i walk multiple dogs. it think its great but not for every dog, if i put it on my gf's dog and gave her a correction she'd cower and freeze.
11/19/08 5:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ceelopez
39 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/10/08
Posts: 325
I shy away from collars with prongs... I walk a 110lb. Akita and have him on the Gentle Leader leash and it works wonders.
11/19/08 5:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeZev
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/15/02
Posts: 9588
yeah its not for every dog- my gf had a jeep dog, really nasty, that just didnt get the prong but was fine on the gentle lead.
11/24/08 8:00 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5404
I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but two things come to mind now:

Can you use a prong with all of the Koehler exercises?

Running with a prong would be dangerous, no?

I still haven't purchased one yet, but I'm sure I will. I'm going to finish reading the Koehler book before I do any delve into anything new regarding training. I'll have about two week off at Xmas, so that's when I'll probably spend a lot of time on obedience, if I decided to go through with it.
11/24/08 8:27 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Total JJ
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/31/05
Posts: 134
Yes, you can do Koehler with a prong, and in my opinion it is a much better choice than a 'choker'.

I have run, and would run again, with a dog on a prong. IMO, they are a very safe choice of training collar.
11/24/08 10:29 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5407
Cool, thanks for the input.
11/29/08 12:01 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5463
I bought a Top Paw chrome plated prong collar from PetSmart tonight for $10.

I haven't done anything with it yet other just some preliminary sizing. Other than the two long pieces the outer prongs connect to, there are only five prongs remaining on the collar after I sized it for him. That's the smallest they had. Now I have five extra prongs.
11/30/08 8:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5495
I'll record a video, host it on YouTube, and link it tomorrow if I have time to show what I'm talking about below.

Even though it's a small, I still think this prong collar is too big for him. Like I said earlier, it came with 10 prongs and to fit it snug I'm down to 5. Then, when I put it on him, there's probably a 1/4 to 1/3 of the collar without any prongs at all.

I might be better off buying a mini prong and just buying extra prongs.
12/1/08 12:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10491

How much area do the 5 prongs cover on the dog's neck?  If they're spaced too far apart  or limited to the front of the neck it's not good(ie: puncturing). Might be better off with the mini.

Post the video so we can tell for sure.
 

12/1/08 8:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5510
smileythai - How much area do the 5 prongs cover on the dog's neck?


After putting it on today it looks like between 1/2 and 3/5.

Post the video so we can tell for sure.

As of 7:30 CST the video hasn't fully processed, but it should be available soon.

I haven't checked it since I edited it on iMovie so I hope it's halfway decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xM3R8TeZBo
12/1/08 8:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5513
Okay, it's available now.

At one point I say "...if I add another prong it's too tight," but I obviously mean that if I remove another prong it's too tight.
12/1/08 8:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10521




Alright, lemme go watch it and see how badly you're abusing this damn dog! lol

12/1/08 9:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10522

Okay, damn! Feel like I'm gonna puke from the eratic fuckin' camera work...  *sea sickness setting in*


But from what I can tell it's a 50/50 call. Seems like enough prongs to make safe and adequate corrections, but if the collar isn't staying taught under the jawline then you should go with the mini.
 

12/1/08 10:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MikeD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/6/06
Posts: 5514
smileythai - Okay, damn! Feel like I'm gonna puke from the eratic fuckin' camera work...  *sea sickness setting in*


Hey, I'm no Spielberg. I've only used it a handful of times. This was very impromptu.


... if the collar isn't staying taught under the jawline then you should go with the mini.


It seems to be staying fine under the jawline, it's the top of the neck that seems to be moving. Oddly enough, and I'm not making this up; yesterday it fit much better than it did on the video today.

I've used it three times IIRC. The first time was just a relaxed 20 minute walk. I never had to give a correction so I didn't really get to test it. It's like when I put it on he knew something was up. Maybe could feel the prongs and thought "oh shit, this is gonna hurt!"?

The next time I used, on a fairly long hike for us, I gave one correction. He got a little too far ahead so I just did an abrupt, right about-turn. Next thing I know I hear a loud yelp and see him by my side staring up like "you bastard!"

I don't remember the context of it, but I gave another correction at some point and heard another shrieking yelp.

I can see how it could get results, but I don't know about doing some of the Koehler stuff with the prong and this little dog. I think I'd rip his head off w/some of those exercises.
12/1/08 10:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
smileythai
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 10528
Any trouble getting the prong off after sessions where you gave corrections...ie: resistance = prongs digging into its neck? If not then the yelping  is your dog scaming you. Yeah, they know what collar is all about from the word go...you're(handler) the dumb one, not them! lol


Watched it again, still not the clearest picture of how it fits, but even so I'd say the mini is more appropriate.



With Koehler. though, just remember corrections do not equate to punishment in the sense of revenge(letting emotions get involved). Remain level headed and your dog won't suffer your wrath.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.