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UnderGround Forums >> Let's talk Steroids. Let's keep it real.


11/29/08 9:20 PM
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Buffbetty
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Shiloh - its amazing to me people will just talk out their ass.

again, if you cant be honest to make your point, have you really made one?


If there is one thing about me you don't know, it's that I am honest. Ask around... If the list is wrong, then I cant do anything about that. I already posted a message for the guy who originally put it online.
11/29/08 9:25 PM
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Shiloh
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well.. i dont know you, you may be the most honest person in the world, but using an online list some guy made up for proof just falls short.

i mean pick a person from that list. munzer? internal bleeding from massive amounts of cytomel (not a steroid). benaziza died from diuretics. sommy schmidt was known for barely taking anything, matarrazzo had a family history from the start. it goes on and on like that.
11/29/08 9:33 PM
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Buffbetty
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Edited: 11/29/08 9:35 PM
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Shiloh - well.. i dont know you, you may be the most honest person in the world, but using an online list some guy made up for proof just falls short.

i mean pick a person from that list. munzer? internal bleeding from massive amounts of cytomel (not a steroid). benaziza died from diuretics. sommy schmidt was known for barely taking anything, matarrazzo had a family history from the start. it goes on and on like that.



As I said, I e-mailed the site. I asked to find out where he got his facts and how he compiled this list of names, etc. Sorry that his list was not accurate. Someone asked for names and I found them there after doing a steroid death search. My apologies. I am sure they will fix that. It still doesn't change the facts of the people I know. It's very sad to see them suffering from their mistakes with steroid use.
11/29/08 9:34 PM
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wyojkd
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 Duchaine was the biggest flag to me. That dude in his pic on his last book I have seen is a bean pole. Ingenious but definately not on AAS before he died. I heard a radio show that gives some insite on Duchaine. It was pretty good.
http://www.superhumanradio.com/rss/2008/SHR_Show_180.mp3

Benaziza died within 24 hours of competing the diuretics is definately more probable. They used some nasty ones back then also.
Menzer refused a transfusion then his liver and kidneys shut down from stomach bleeding.

11/29/08 9:36 PM
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Shiloh
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no need to apologize.

here is all im saying: steroids have never been proven ever in history to be the cause of death. obviously abusing drugs is a bad idea and will have consequences, steroids are no exception. but there is a difference between use and abuse, and the bad factors are HIGHLY exaggerated. look at any medicine you have in your cabinet and read the side effects, it looks terrible.

people can easily make their case of why steroids should be supervised by a doctor and they would be correct.
11/29/08 9:38 PM
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Shiloh
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ray and mike were full blown alcoholics with mental probs as well. mike was a smart guy, but he had serious demons.
11/29/08 9:39 PM
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wyojkd
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 The other thing to note here is naming people where hypertrophy and leanness was these guys whole sport. Name an athlete of another field that has died of steroids. Steroids is essential to these athletes shtick not the actual litmus stick to compare for all sports. If it is so wide spread it should be easy. Just drawing the differences of how they use them versus another athlete would.
11/29/08 9:39 PM
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kelby
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Mica Kizbig - 
Beninger - Let em do it. You don't become a better fighter by juicing.


Agree 100%

your wrong. you do become a better fighter. bigger, stronger, fasster, more enducrance list goes on. all this i need to recuperate faster, is crap. they cant do it naturally. and dont know how to train naturally and sensibly. you can still go full five rounds with out training like a maniac. old time catch as catch can wrestlers used to fight for hours. they didnt use any thing stupid like roids.
we should not tolerate, and except roids. keep fighting against it.
11/29/08 9:41 PM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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 Guys....too much of just about ANYTHING can kill you. You can die from drinking too much water (hyponatremia) for god's sake......everything in moderation. Just don't abuse the shit.
11/29/08 9:46 PM
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orbit
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steroids themselves don't make your game better, but they allow you to recover faster and get more training time in which makes you better.
If steroids didn't give guys an edge, fighters wouldn't be taking it.
11/29/08 9:47 PM
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wyojkd
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kelby - 
Mica Kizbig - 
Beninger - Let em do it. You don't become a better fighter by juicing.


Agree 100%

your wrong. you do become a better fighter. bigger, stronger, fasster, more enducrance list goes on. all this i need to recuperate faster, is crap. they cant do it naturally. and dont know how to train naturally and sensibly. you can still go full five rounds with out training like a maniac. old time catch as catch can wrestlers used to fight for hours. they didnt use any thing stupid like roids.
we should not tolerate, and except roids. keep fighting against it.
It seems to me most of the guys who have failed the tests on shows have been heavily on the losing side of the card. The only two I can think of is Sherk fight and both popped pos. and Silva the heavyweight from EliteXC. Most everyone else was in the loser bracket that I remember so it didn't make them good enough to win.
 
11/29/08 9:52 PM
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wyojkd
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Edited: 11/29/08 9:56 PM
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 Clen is considered a IOC performance enhancer. If I am not mistaking. Now it is heavily used but you just have to be diagnosed with asthma to get it. Awsome for cutting weight better than the ECA stack and many professionals say safer.
HCG(pregnyl) is also on IOC list of banned.  So if a commission uses the IOC, WADA list they will fail a test. 
11/29/08 10:15 PM
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wyojkd
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 Beta-2 antagonist = clenbuterol
peptide hormone =  HCG
11/29/08 10:33 PM
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wyojkd
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 That is those 2, though and they do nothing to rid the metablites of other drugs. Nandralone is 12 - 18 months depending on who research you read. testosterone undecanoate is a week, testosterone propenate is 2 weeks. Test cyp is only 3 months. HGH is 1 hour after injection.
The test are beatable for sure, more people beat them than who fail in sports in general. In MMA I wonder because its a poor boy sport. Very few people getting good payouts. So how wide spread is it really? Although a test stack is a whole lot cheaper than the crappy supps that GNC, Flex magazine sells.

Clen at least used to be very easy to take while competing all you had to do was have a doctor say you have asthma. I know they have allowances for beta2 antogonist cause Herring uses his inhaler just before going in the ring. His is medically prescribed and needed. But your list doesn't say medical exemption on it.

11/29/08 10:37 PM
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wyojkd
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Edited: 11/29/08 10:40 PM
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OneScoup - Fighters (or athletes in general) should forced to take substances that threaten their health just because everybody else is doing it. MMA is already hard enough on the body I think the line should be drawn at steroids.

Many elite trainers I have read or heard interviews of, say MMA athletes are the athletes that run the closest to constant overtraining than anyother sport.
Viagra is the next to go on the list because of its uses for recovery.  Allowing the body to recover is what steroids do. They don't actually grow the muscle or make it faster. It rebuilds it after the damage of training.
  
11/29/08 10:43 PM
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wyojkd
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Edited: 11/29/08 10:44 PM
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 Anyways this topic isn't a winnable one from either side it is to much of a personal choice. Risk to Reward and properly done (not taking into consideration of the rules or laws) but just the physiology of it, the risks can heavily be abated with proper knowledge and monitoring.
 But its cheating till the goverment makes it legal and orgs allow it also.
11/29/08 11:01 PM
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BZLJJ
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 Jason,

Cool of you to be open and honest about this. I wish you luck in your struggle. I consider you a good friend, and will support you in your efforts.

However, as unpopular as this may be to you and the rest of the forum, I agree with Shiloh! There is a lot of truth in what he speaks. I have done a lot of research on both sides of the topic, and know many people that have used, and still do.

I think it boils down to the fact that if you are against steriods in general, you will refuse to see, or disprove,  what he says. Not just YOU personally, but ANYONE that disagrees with him.
11/29/08 11:40 PM
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irish_pride
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I don't care either way if people use steroids. Most people don't properly use them or enhance themselves beyond normal limits anyway. As i said, most that i know are beginners and don't do the cycle properly and end with 12 pounds of muscle off an advanced cycle, with gyno to boot.

That is well under what a proper diet, excercise and recovery program would get you.

That being said, although steroids themselves may not have documented deaths, there is no denying that the raises in cholesterol, bp, improper usage, medical issues user already has, etc., can result in stroke/anheurism (sp)/heart attack/death. Not from steroids, but as a result of steroid usage.

I think that cancers could be caused as well. Primarily if it is man made and foreign to your body as opposed to test or naturally occuring.

Using HGH in hopes of being faster or stronger is retarded as well. Bigger yes, anything else no.

Many fighters also use Clen, which is not what we are discussing, but probably the highest used for cutting or weight loss.

Brad
11/30/08 12:14 AM
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heelbook
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 What we really need are more bureaucrats telling athletes what they can and can't do with their lives. 
11/30/08 12:20 AM
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eljamaiquino
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I’m amazed at the lack of knowledge displayed in this thread. People dying from steroid overdoses? Steroids causing pancreatic cancer? With all the misinformation about this stuff, no wonder athletes can’t make informed decisions. How can you make an argument against a substance that you obviously know nothing about? Some of the respondents are like the sex-ed teacher who tells you that masturbation will make you go blind. How can anyone take you seriously? Exercise can cause an enlarged heart. Almost anyone who trains seriously will have one to some extent. Did all the people who ever had pancreatic cancer use steroids? I can’t even continue….WOW! Can any of you bright sparks explain why doctors give anabolic steroids to HIV and cancer patients if they are so deadly?

Steroids themselves are no more dangerous than any other drug. If used properly, side effects can easily be kept to a minimum or non noticeable level. But from most of the responses on this thread, it is obvious that responsible use is far beyond the scope of the average individual.
11/30/08 12:22 AM
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Shiloh
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"as unpopular as this may be to you and the rest of the forum, I agree with Shiloh!"

thanks! (i think? lolol)
11/30/08 1:44 AM
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wk
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I have all the respect in the world for fighters who stay off the juice, and for those like Jason who can step up and right their wrongs.

Bottom line, they're illegal. In pro sports, even in moderation, it's still cheating. I'm all for random tests and harsher consequences.
11/30/08 2:03 AM
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PrinceAlbert
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Don't cheat you pussies! People that feel the need to use these supplements have and will always take short cuts in life.

You know I never had any satisfaction when I had my hand raised or stood on top of a podium?? I got mine from the sweat and tears I put into the prep, I expected the outcome because I knew the hell I went through to get there and it didn't involve a pill or shot. I always knew I was doing more than my opponent to win in prep without cutting corners!

Those guys will lose out in the end to someone that has put in the hours and hard work anyway.
11/30/08 5:18 AM
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MMASally
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TheAdonis - Reinhardt, you are a d level trailer trash hack, you couldn't afford steroids if you sold your butthole to a poop researcher you lil bitch.

and that is all

The Adonis

P.S. name ONE single name opponent you beat, because you've been beating up on Denny's cooks for years you fucking scrub


We're having an itelligent debate and you come with this shit.

Jason shows everyone on here the utmost respect and he deserves it in return.

You have a lot of nerve talking shit to a real person hiding behind phoney screen name and your bullshit fantasy internet persona.

Eat shit and die loser.
11/30/08 7:21 AM
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Dirtyu D
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Jason Reinhardt - Who agrees with me about Steroids being wrong, and they have no place in MMA?




I don't agree with steroid use, but you come across as knowing absolutely shit about the subject.

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