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BJJGround Forum >> Won Choi - bjj black belt in judo novice division


12/16/08 7:51 AM
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dojo stormer
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guess this john frankl isnt such a nice guy..hahahah

yeah, the internet keeps shit real.
12/16/08 11:58 AM
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jtwalker
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hey if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck... then it's a duck
12/16/08 2:01 PM
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bjjasia
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I've been in touch with key persons that can vouch firt-hand that Mickey is in no way a BJJ black-belt. The first being Gerarld Harris from Machado Utah and the second being John Frankl, both have already commented on this thread and have shared with me their experience with Mickey.

It all starts with me receiving an e-mail with the announcement of Mickey's new academy in Seoul. At the time I was under the impression that it was Mickey writing the e-mail but would later learn it was his agent, Jason Kim. Perhaps Mr. Kim doesn't train jiu-jitsu and is not aware that the BJJ community is not so big that if you mess up in Utah, it won't come and find you in Seoul. Anyways, I was very open to support another school but was curious to find there was little to nothing regarding 'mickey choi' but would eventually find plenty on 'wonchoi'. Within a day, there are already several posts saying Mickey is a fake and is deceiving any potential students about his ability as a competitor let alone an instructor of BJJ. From there I just plugged away and found more and more information against Mickey. I've approached Mickey and Mr. Kim several times this week offering an opportunity to produce a statement in their defense. They've replied that Mickey is open to any challenge but that's about it. I've been asked to take down Mickey's profile, including the comments against him. At this point I don't think I can do this in good conscience since I was one approached to promote his new academy in Seoul. If it proves that Mickey is not what he says he is, then I would think BJJ-ASIA should also stand as a record of that.

I will probably write a brief statement but it would appear that most have exercised their demons regarding Mickey and others entertained by this bit of BJJ drama. It's unfortunate as I'm sure some friendships were lost and perhaps some were hurt. I would like to think that most of us, the belt itself is not the goal but a reflection of what we've been able to achieve through hard-work, determination, respect and discipline. The journey commands respect and there are no short cuts.

Luke
12/16/08 3:13 PM
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shen
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Edited: 12/16/08 3:15 PM
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Hey, if you get a chance...

Ask his agent if there's any word when Mickey's win over the practitioner of "Young Sul Do" will be added to the Gracie "In Action" series.

Thanks!
12/16/08 7:30 PM
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John Frankl
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" I've approached Mickey and Mr. Kim several times this week offering an opportunity to produce a statement in their defense. They've replied that Mickey is open to any challenge but that's about it."

Luke,

Did you get the idea that they were referring to challenges in the form of letters from Utah and Brazil, or are they saying he will "prove" his black belt status through challenge matches?

I am not all that nice,

John
12/16/08 8:19 PM
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bjjasia
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Here is the e-mail that states Mickey's present position but not the last that I've received from Mr. Kim:
------------------------------------------------
Well first of all thanks for letting us know about the comments.

my name is Jason Kim I am the international agency for Mickey Choi. We will look up the comments and tell you about it.g

I think there are only two black belts of Jiu-jitsu in Korea so there will be lot's of reputation fights to go on.
But you know Korea is very small country so it's really normal to be like this. So we don't really put matters to it, but... if anyone want's to test Mickey's skill he is always ready to show him off.
Anyways Luke you don't really need to concentrate on these rumors but still we feel very sorry to bother you and your blog.
please notice that we are always ready to show our skills and we welcome the competitions.And will ignore all the rumors and comments accept that we will show ourselves out with our skills. and He already have proved at the Frankly's studio.

Thanks for your kindness Luke

p.s. Mickey's got black belt in judo last month he won judo competition in US couple times before he got black belt
so finally mickey is BJJ, Judo,TKD's black belt.

From Jason Kim
--------------------------------------------------

John, I can forward you the e-mails and his address to you if you'd like.

Luke
12/16/08 9:42 PM
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Koga
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On a more serious note, what does it say about the guy that he would make this so obvious even from his own websites (wearing a blue belt in a picture with Rigan in a 2006 seminar and a white belt in picture in a judo tourn in 2007, a technical display in his youtube videos that makes Ari from 101 Submissions look like Marcelo Garcia)? Did he want to get exposed as a fraud or did he just not care as he is trying to market himself to novices in Utah and Korea?

All of this begs even more uncomfortable questions. When I look at Mickey's pics with his tough guy posing, "inhale created lats" flexing and bling bling medals and fake credentials, it makes me realize that these are exaggerated examples of ego that we see all the time: the guy who hurts a training partner to "win" in training, the blue belt instructor who refuses to train with a black belt as it would "look bad" as they are "both instructors", the guy who puts on a website that he won a local tourn without mentioning it was as in a beginner division, etc.

It is embarrassing to even be involved in the same activities as a Mickey Choi and makes me question my own motivations for training martial arts. It is horrible to say, but you almost wish that it can all be explained by him having some sort of mental disorder that you don't share. The scariest thing is that he teaches martial arts to kids for a living. - Koga!
12/16/08 10:01 PM
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vegard
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"It is embarrassing to even be involved in the same activities as a Mickey Choi and makes me question my own motivations for training martial arts."

Mickey choi reflects poorly on no one but himself and those who support and promote him.
12/16/08 10:30 PM
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bjjasia
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Koga - ...it makes me realize that these are exaggerated examples of ego that we see all the time: the guy who hurts a training partner to "win" in training, the blue belt instructor who refuses to train with a black belt as it would "look bad" as they are "both instructors", the guy who puts on a website that he won a local tourn without mentioning it was as in a beginner division, etc. - Koga!


Might we know the same people? Koga, have you ever lived in Thailand and or Singapore?
12/16/08 10:49 PM
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MOWA Outlaw
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bjjasia - and He already have proved at the Frankly's studio.


LOL
12/17/08 1:26 AM
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keseki
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Edited: 12/17/08 1:29 AM
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"He already have proved at the Frankly's studio."

I don't know why, but I love this sentence.
12/17/08 2:17 AM
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TBoy2
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lol, black belt in Judo after 2 competitions. They must have been international comps.
12/17/08 2:34 AM
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DJColdfusion
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I'm the webmaster at SLCBJJ.com and I wrote and posted the above letter about Mickey. I had posted it here but that was quite a while ago. We decided to remove it from the site because we thought the whole issue was resolved and didn't want to focus on something this negative.

Mickey did receive his purple from Jeff Kunze (a Rigan black belt) and then was badly beaten at the PanAms (2007). A couple of weeks later he goes to Brazil and comes back with a black belt. Long story short, he went from Blue to Black in about 4 months.
12/17/08 2:39 AM
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DJColdfusion
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I honestly did consider Mickey a friend and this entire situation bothers me. Then again, I'm not sure how he could insult the people who trusted him so much here in Utah.

Mickey will not step up to any real challenge. If an actual black belt walks into his school and challenges him then Mickey will do everything he can to get out of there. You might hear "your too big", "I would love to but I hurt my back", but you won't see him accepting the challenge.
12/17/08 5:04 PM
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DJColdfusion
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TTT -- This is getting a ton of attention on other forums right now.
12/17/08 5:08 PM
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rnaviaux
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Edited: 12/17/08 5:19 PM
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It should be known that Mickey promoted himself to brown belt in Judo shortly before going back to Korea. He was a white in Judo that "trained" at the Lehi Judo club. He never tested for any belt which is standard for Judo advancement. Too make matters worse he promoted one of his blue belt jiu-jitsu students to Purple. A very likable young kid that I rolled with once on the day he got his purple. If he had come back to the Judo club I was going to invite him to get evaluated by some Pedro Sauer black belts as I thought his skills were white belt level. (I'm a new purple under Pedro Sauer.)

I should add that Mickey seemed to be a competent grappler. I have since worked with a number of his previous students and it is clear to me that his teaching skills are sub-par as after a year of Mickey teaching jiu-jitsu to them they knew NOTHING.

Rna
12/17/08 5:55 PM
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kuan
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HAMSAMIDA
12/18/08 6:52 AM
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bluesky
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He beat Joe Camacho in the Blackbelt Masters?
http://www.usbjjf.org/results/2007american.htm

Getting rather interesting.
12/18/08 7:58 AM
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keseki
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Edited: 12/20/08 12:35 AM
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http://www.usbjjf.org/results/2007american.htm


Could it be happened that Joe didn't even appear for the match due to some reason?

Anyway, someone screwed up by letting Choi Won "Mickey" (aka Mickey Won Choi) compete in Black Belt without verifying his belt, which is done in japan and if it isn't done everywhere, should be right away, precisely to avoid this kind of situation where a halfwit wannabe blue belt enters the black belt division hoping that somehow he will get a victory (for example there are just one enemy or none), and then uses that win to claim he IS a black belt.Que bosta.
12/20/08 12:52 AM
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keseki
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Edited: 12/21/08 12:30 AM
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Narcissistic Personality Disorder?


One manifestation is an extreme sense of entitlement. Mickey Won Choi thought he deserved a BJJ black belt (why he thought this is a question for a qualified mental health professional) and since no one who is qualified and authorized to give him one would give him one, he had no choice but to (1) lie and say that Eduardo Telles gave it to him, (2) promote purple belt Dave Hoggan to black belt (despite that he had no qualification to promote anyone to anything) and then have Dave Hoogan promote him to black belt (despite that a newly promoted black belt, even if legitimate, have no right to promote anyone else to black belt, let alone a blue belt).


Obviously, no one in the internet age would EVER be able to find out that Eduardo Telles did NOT gave Choi Won Mickey any belt, let alone black, or that the rest of his confused, disordered story don't makes any sense or shares any resemblence to reality.

gambled that, because his dojang is in Seoul and his site is in Hangul, no one would ever find out. In Korea we have a proverb "u mul an ui kaekkuri" and Choi Won Mickey seems like that kaekkuri in the u mul. (Which meaning is same as Japanese "ii no naka no kawazu" for those who don't know Korean language).

I revise later if my hangul romanization is inapt.

People might be tired of this topic but I don't think it should be allowed to die away. This is one of the worst cases of BJJ fakery I have ever seen. Robson Pereira looks 100% legit in comparison to Choi Won Mickey.


By the way, as a side note, the word Mickey (mee-kee) in Korean means "bait". In addition, it is the name of a famous cartoon mouse.
12/21/08 3:06 AM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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bluesky - He beat Joe Camacho in the Blackbelt Masters?
http://www.usbjjf.org/results/2007american.htm

Getting rather interesting.

 Camacho did not make it to the event.
12/21/08 5:44 AM
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dojo stormer
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the dude is a movie star,so he probably lives in his own little world away from the lesser people.
12/21/08 9:12 AM
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Steve72
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keseki -
In Korea we have a proverb "u mul an ui kaekkuri" and Choi Won Mickey seems like that kaekkuri in the u mul. (Which meaning is same as Japanese "ii no naka no kawazu" for those who don't know Korean language).


 I appreciate the translation, but how about one for those of us who speak neither Korean nor Japanese?
12/21/08 12:51 PM
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Issus
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In the good frog...? Or The frog in your stomach (japanese = i for stomach)?

Which one?

Not that it makes much sense literally. Probably comes out a little different in colloquial English.
12/21/08 4:09 PM
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robhustle
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