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SoldierGround >> Redcoats vs modern day USA Marines


1/3/09 3:54 AM
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hubris
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Edited: 01/03/09 3:54 AM
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GladiatorGannon - how come the brits get to have small cannons and horses, but the marines only have what they can carry, and nothing they can ride? thats stacking the deck quite bit.


With 120,000 men, they certainly could pull cannons to the battle field.

I really don't think 100 men can pull a supply truck.
1/3/09 3:55 AM
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hubris
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not horses though
1/3/09 4:01 AM
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Bort McAllister
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estarriol - Somehow, after years of reading on here how the US army could beat the Death Star and the entire galaxy put together, I am still amazed that so many people think that 100 guys could beat 112,000. I have no idea why, this place spawns retards like maggots.

Could 1 guy beat 1,120 guys? Could 1 guy with all the ammo he can carry beat 1,120 guys armed with fucking rocks? I cannot imagine any situation where 1 guy could beat more than 1,000, not even in Sparta.

BTW Hubris are you trying to make some point about China or the middle east? Or just weeding out the crazies?

 Seriously. This shit is getting really out of hand.
1/3/09 4:02 AM
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dojo stormer
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can a musket even do damage to body armour?

marines ALL DAY, ALL DAY
1/3/09 4:03 AM
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TheHumanTornado
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-Is each side just dropped in a field somewhere?

-Do they know what they're expecting? It's possible that the Marines, realizing that they're outnumbered 1,000:1 might just surrender at the outset.

-Does each side have a chance to fortify?
1/3/09 9:38 AM
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honestus
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mortars and a couple spotters would destroy them in a in or two, the technology now is way too much compared to then, a single mortar team would be able to destroy their moral it would be a literal slaughter, then they'd run, rinse, repeat...

is there resupply points though? that would be the difference, without a resupply the marines lose, with it they could use long distance of a couple miles to kill the enemy

distance would be the biggest factor, if the founding fathers were able to use concealment against the british there is no way that modern day trained marines would not be able to
1/3/09 9:52 AM
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Mr B
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really doesn't seem like some of this would be an issue.

granted, any number of things could happen, but based purely on each soldier, on each side, having only what he can carry...the marines would have to come out on top.

it's already been said several times: redcoats witnessing modern technology wouldn't psychologically handle it.

take out enough people and the rest would break.
1/3/09 10:50 AM
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Khun Kao
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Where is TrueFightScholar when you need him?
1/3/09 12:28 PM
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sreiter
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m16 - The maxium effective range on a point target is 550 meters, and at an area target is 800 meters. The maxium range is 3600 meters. 700 rounds per minute


english musket - range 80 meters - fire rate 3 shots a min



brits are dead before they even get to the skirmish line
1/3/09 12:52 PM
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Pound4PoundPimp
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Edited: 01/03/09 12:58 PM
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Well, I wasn't a Marine, but I was in the Army. The preparation for this conflict would take into consideration enemy weaponry and effective ranges of such. Also terrain. Given the superior numbers I can see a tactical plan based heavily in utilizing every advantage available to us. First and foremost would be night fighting as much as possible. Firing from concealment and sniping would be heavy considerations as well.A heads-up fight wouldn't make the most sense. Taking out their command and control on the first night, cutting off/mining supply lines as early as possible, and never revealing the true minimal extent of our own force would be paramount to success.From the perspective of the redcoats they would be facing an unseen enemy who could kill them at night with superior fire power and unknown numbers. Picking off their command and control and sniping from hidden locations would be seen as unchivalrous, and not in stride with the rules of war they were accustomed to. In the event they were able to hit one of us they would no doubt wonder why their weapons weren't effective given our body armor.They would have no choice but to surrender.Keys to victory:-claymores-SAW-night vision-concealment-exploitation of terrain-sniping-fear
1/3/09 1:09 PM
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Information
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Here's an example of a standard combat load for an infantry platoon: Combat Load

I think the Brits overwhelm the Marines through sheer numbers and the Marines' desire to have man-sex with their fruity counterparts in the British Army.
1/3/09 2:16 PM
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hubris
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honestus - 
is there resupply points though? that would be the difference, without a resupply the marines lose, with it they could use long distance of a couple miles to kill the enemy


I already said there are no lines of communications. Only what they can carry into battle.
1/3/09 2:24 PM
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TheHumanTornado
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Wikipedia on the Zulu War of 1879:

"The Zulu had greater numbers than their opponents, but greater numbers massed together simply presented yet more lucrative, easy shooting in the age of modern firearms and artillery. The Zulu persisted in 'human wave' attacks against well defended European positions where massed firepower decimated their ranks. The ministrations of Zulu witchdoctors, or the bravery of individual regiments were ultimately of little use against the volleys of modern rifles, Gatling guns and artillery."

Still, the Zulu, fighting with spears and cow-hide shields, held out for four months and managed to kill and wound several hundred British. And the ratio of combatants in those battles was nowhere near the 1000:1 in the scenario discussed here.

Granted, the Marines are far more advanced than the British Army circa 1879, but 1000:1 is still a huge disadvantage. If the British fire 2,000 cannon shots per day, they only need a 2 percent accuracy rate to wipe out half of the Marine force.

As someone else said, the Marine force would have to take to the hills and wage a guerilla campaign of night fighting, mortar fire and sniper shots, if for no other reason than every casualty suffered by the Marines reduces their fighting force by 1 percent.
1/3/09 2:25 PM
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GaydarBlane
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I think it's possible if the British use traditional battle techniques. On a straight up battle field? Probably not.

A force of 100,000 red coats trying to find and catch the marines? Possibly. Marines have body armor and far and away more range and accuracy with their weapons. Drop some grenades and mortars into lined up packed troops and shoot CO's from 800 yards away, and the red coats would be hurting.

Then we have night to consider. The marines have night vision technology and could easily storm a British camp at night taking out sentries well before they could raise any alarm.
1/3/09 3:14 PM
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quick
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I was a Marine grunt and you guys a ape shit crazy. The Marines could create some damage and destruction, but the simple fact is that on one side you have an ARMY and on the other you have maybe two infantry companies. When you take into account that the Marines will have no sort of resupply or support then it is definitely game over.
1/3/09 3:50 PM
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Vantagepoint
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Im thinking two PRO football teams vs everyone in the stands.
1/3/09 3:51 PM
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KlingKiteMayor
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hubris -
GladiatorGannon - how come the brits get to have small cannons and horses, but the marines only have what they can carry, and nothing they can ride? thats stacking the deck quite bit.


With 120,000 men, they certainly could pull cannons to the battle field.

I really don't think 100 men can pull a supply truck.


Why not?

Marines still win due to 200 years difference in technology, the british would have no Idea why their superior officers kept getting head shot from nowhere. and how do do 120,000 men fit onto one battlefield.
1/3/09 3:59 PM
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hubris
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Vantagepoint - Im thinking two PRO football teams vs everyone in the stands.


which pro teams?
1/3/09 4:02 PM
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TheHumanTornado
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KlingKiteMayor - 
hubris -
GladiatorGannon - how come the brits get to have small cannons and horses, but the marines only have what they can carry, and nothing they can ride? thats stacking the deck quite bit.


With 120,000 men, they certainly could pull cannons to the battle field.

I really don't think 100 men can pull a supply truck.


Why not?

Marines still win due to 200 years difference in technology, the british would have no Idea why their superior officers kept getting head shot from nowhere. and how do do 120,000 men fit onto one battlefield.


Some of the battles in the Napoleonic wars saw two and three times than many per battle.
1/3/09 4:11 PM
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Entreri
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The Marines would win if they fight smart.

Even with 112,000 men in one battlefield.

The Marines would have to use superior tactics.

They have far superior ranged weapons, far more accurate, rapid fire. A few well placed snipers, going after strategic targets (the cannons, leading officers)...the rank and file would run in terror (their officers taken down as if by magic/sniper taking them out, who is a mile away), the army would be in disarray and will retreat.

Some Marines will also have rocket launchers, grenades, mines...
1/3/09 4:43 PM
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crescentwrench
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That's what I'd think.  The marines would shag ass if the Brits came trudging along and then pick off the Brit leaders as they sat around their campfires at night. 

If they lined up and just started firing I could see the marines eventually getting overrun but why would they do that?  Do all the fighting at night.
1/3/09 4:43 PM
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sourcheese
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Edited: 01/03/09 4:45 PM
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grenades launchers would cause massive moral damage on a the box formation.

Redcoats would have to have a damn smart general that realizes that the box would lose. Dont see that happening though because its ingrained in them to fight in box formation.

If the redcoats had a progressive smart as fuck general and officers that could keep men marching when moral is shit... marines would have a hard time. (of course the generals and officers woudnt last long to the accuracy of a marine)

If the redcoats didnt have the ideal leaders, it would be an utter slaughter.
1/3/09 5:19 PM
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TheHumanTornado
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Are the Marines receiving smallpox vaccinations prior to tangling with this 18th century army?
1/3/09 6:17 PM
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Squatdog
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A bayonet charge from a ridiculous number like that would be unstoppable, not to mention the Redcoats would roll up their hundreds of artillery pieces and shower the Marines with grapeshot.
1/3/09 6:20 PM
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Squatdog
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sourcheese - grenades launchers would cause massive moral damage on a the box formation.

Redcoats would have to have a damn smart general that realizes that the box would lose. Dont see that happening though because its ingrained in them to fight in box formation.

If the redcoats had a progressive smart as fuck general and officers that could keep men marching when moral is shit... marines would have a hard time. (of course the generals and officers woudnt last long to the accuracy of a marine)

If the redcoats didnt have the ideal leaders, it would be an utter slaughter.


LOL...no.

Riflemen in particular fought in a skirmishing order exactly the same as today and the main reason for the tight square was to defend against cavalry.

The grenades wouldn't have anywhere near the impact of the massed artillery deployed in the Napoleonic Wars (for example).

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