UnderGround Forums
 

Kickboxing UnderGround >> History of Chuteboxe "Muay Thai"


1/11/09 9:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ryukyu Damashi
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/26/04
Posts: 8306
 
A brazilian posted this on another forum. I remember someone here asking about Anderson Silva's Muay Thai.


"Well, I was explaining it since 2002, but I understand you question about mt in brazil began with brazilian tkd guys who were introducted by master lee, a korean tkd master to some mt and the "sawamura" old anime series.

That's why they use so many spinning techiques, do a google search and you will see it, for generations their contact with mt was indirect, that's why they use belts, which are actually more a status that actually belts (but they still call them like that) think about holland and the OSU thing that they got due to their kyokushin influence. Those guys like Nelio borges marco ruas, etc created their own branches 9boxe thai, ruas vale tudo) and chute boxe was the result of this generation

many sherdogger who had contact with chute boxe can confirm you that they are actually have an unique striking aproach, but, now that stomps, soccer kicks, headbutts and hair pulling are't allowed even here and their fighter are getting old, people are now critizing them a lot...it's so unfair, when wandy was sending people's heads to the outerspace, most mt sherdoggers were like "whoa! a victory for mt!!!!!" now that wandy it's old, people are like "that's not real mt! Anderson has the R3@L mT!!!!"

Anderson it's exactly like those first generation chute boxers (actually the name chute boxe came from the anime translation of kick boxing, nerdy huh?) you see him spinning, doing double kicks(vs le murray) and kicking twice in the same leg (the ultimate fighter showed him doing some tkd stuff) and so on.

Of course people will say (but mt has it too!) but c'mon, it's a fact that they took those techniques from tkd (he beagn there when in hre tkd required like 6 yrs to have a black belt and he did it until 16/18 and gives a lot of credit to it, and doing a search here, specially with my older posts you will see what i mean.

But don't feel insulted, they never claimed having the legitimate mt, but an hybrid form, just like bjj could be seen this way and not a rip off of kosen judo and so on, c'mon, if Lyoto wasn't the son of the most important shotokan masters of Brazil, his style would be called brazlian karate or something like this (my nick it's a joke like that, based in hkd guys who kicked ass in the 90's in the vale tudos of sao paulo and i trained with them for a long time)

Of course pure stand up mt, dutch or thai are much better technically in pure stand up, but in vale tudo, without proper grappling knowledge, well they have no chance (remember aerts and dekkers recieving heel hooks? Or in the opposite situation, there was a challenge between chute boxe and shootboxing that the shootboxers koed almost every chute boxe guy)
1/11/09 11:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sevenone
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/07
Posts: 56
"Of course pure stand up mt, dutch or thai are much better technically in pure stand up, but in vale tudo, without proper grappling knowledge, well they have no chance"

Really? I disagree in Brazil a lot of traditional MT comps have been won by Chute Boxe guys and Dida even made a name for himself in K-1. I mean he's in there with some of the most technical in the world. In any case evolution makes every one better,traditional guys have to adapt and it weeds out useless techniques.
1/11/09 3:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Diego stole my name
91 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 13070
Im not sure what you are trying to say. The Muay Thai Chuteboxe practises is no different than the Muay Thai the rest of Brazil practises. So how does Chuteboxe winning thaiboxing competitions in Brazil prove anything

And Dida fought once in K-1 against another MMA fighter Morkevicius. And he was coming back from a serious injury that had him retired for over a year.

You should try and find the shootboxing tournament the guy talks about. The entire Chute Boxe team was KOd. Nilson DeCastro among others
1/11/09 4:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sultan
103 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/11/09 5:09 PM
Member Since: 9/12/06
Posts: 21288
  "Anderson it's exactly like those first generation chute boxers (actually the name chute boxe came from the anime translation of kick boxing, nerdy huh?) you see him spinning, doing double kicks(vs le murray) and kicking twice in the same leg (the ultimate fighter showed him doing some tkd stuff) and so on."

Anderson has a black belt in classical TKD, IIRC.

He was doing TKD back before he ever started western boxing and muay thai.

His style is a nice blend of TKD, boxing, and muay thai....It's part of the reason he's a potent striker...He makes stuff work that people say "wouldn't work" in modern combat sports.



Excerpt:

"Anderson Silva's training background and fighting style.

Anderson Silva first began training in martial arts, specifically Tae Kwon Do, when he was 14 years old......"
  
Source: http://www.extremeprosports.com/MMA/anderson_silva.html

1/11/09 5:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sevenone
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/07
Posts: 57
"The Muay Thai Chuteboxe practises is no different than the Muay Thai the rest of Brazil practises." I don't believe that this is correct. I have a little bit of knowledge about MT in Brazil and it seems to me that the Chute Boxe system was different both in principle and practice than other Brazilian MT which tends to be more like traditional Muay Thai. I may be wrong but maybe someone else on this forum has more knowledge on the subject than I. In any event I was just trying to suggest that Chute Boxe style guys (the more technical ones such as Dida) can hang in there with the more traditional guys.
1/11/09 6:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sultan
103 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/11/09 6:28 PM
Member Since: 9/12/06
Posts: 21294
 "I have a little bit of knowledge about MT in Brazil and it seems to me that the Chute Boxe system was different both in principle and practice than other Brazilian MT which tends to be more like traditional Muay Thai."

I trained Muay Thai for a while with a guy who was a Brazilian Muay Thai Champion....IIRC, his name was Valter Santos...

His style of Muay Thai was very Dutchy, meaning he used a lot of straight up punches and kicks combinations....Good at knees too.  It didn't seem much different from traditional Muay Thai.
 
1/11/09 6:30 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ryukyu Damashi
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/26/04
Posts: 8309
Here is more info on Brazilian MT.

Muaythai in Brazil

By Guilherme Bringel


"Muay Thai was introduced in Brazil in the 70's by Trainer Nelio Borges in the city of Curitiba in Paraná. Trainer Nelio Borges trained in Muay Thai in several European countries. Quickly Muay Thai was brought to the city of Rio de Janeiro from where it expanded nationally throughout the whole of Brazil.

For a long time Muay Thai was one of the more well-known Martial Arts throughout Brazil, but mainly in the cities of Rio de Janeiro and Curitiba.

In the beginning, most of the Muay Thai trainers were also teachers of Taekwondo and for that reason some kicks that these teachers taught suffered a strong influence of Taekwondo. Some kicks were added in the air and also some teachers did some demonstrations that were typical of the breaking of Taekwondo.

At one time some teachers modified some rules and they created in the city of Rio de Janeiro the version known as " Muay Thai Amateur ", a rules version in which blows of knees were not allowed and nor elbows strikes. With that, these trainers taught a lot for a long time a style similar to Kickboxing and that didn't resemble Muay Thai. But, at this same time, several trainers of Rio de Janeiro, of Curitiba, of São Paulo and of other states continued to teach true Muay Thai in the original way.

In the 90's Muay Thai began to be organized in Brazil around the coordination of the " Brazilian Confederation of Boxing ", the organization that coordinates the Boxing in Brazil. Departments were created inside of the " Confederation of Boxing " and there began to be created associations and regional federations. At this same time the " Brazilian Confederation of Muay Thai " was created.

Still at this time several trainers began their training of Muay Thai in several European countries and in Thailand. Two trainers were the pioneers in training authentic Muay Thai in Thailand, they were the Trainer Edson of Sousa of the city of São Paulo and the Trainer Guilherme Bringel of the city of Rio de Janeiro.

But, several Brazilian teachers were also training in several European countries, for example: Trainer Luís Alves (he trained Muay Thai in Holland), Trainer Roney Alex (he Trained Muay Thai in England), Trainer Paulo Nikolai (he trained Muay Thai in Holland).

Nowadays, Muay Thai in Brazil is at a good level if compared to Muay Thai practiced in the USA and in Europe. Very good fighters that have levels of international fight experience exist here.

In the last few years, the only bad thing that has happened with Muay Thai in Brazil was that several excellent fighters of Muay Thai of international fame are no longer fighting Muay Thai, having opted to fight Vallale-Tudo Championships. Due to this Muay Thai suffered a great lack of fighters and only now is recovering. At the moment, Muay Thai is rejuvenating and great fighters are again appearing in Brazil.

At the moment, several world organizations of Muay Thai and Kickboxing are present in Brazil, for example: USMTA (United States Muay Thai Association), WKL (World Kickboxing League), USKBA (United States Muay Thai Association), WAKO (World Associations Kickboxing Organizations), ISKA (International Sport Kickboxing Association). These associations are beginning to organize championships of a good level in Brazil and soon here in Brazil there should appear great fighters from Brazil that will be thrown in the ring to fight internationally for to entertain the MuayThai world. "
1/11/09 6:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Diego stole my name
91 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 13073
"In any event I was just trying to suggest that Chute Boxe style guys (the more technical ones such as Dida) can hang in there with the more traditional guys."

Maybe he can. But like i said. Morkevicius is not known as a K-1 fighter. He is a good striker but with an MMA background

I personally dont think Dida is very technical. He is a brawler that has very heavy hands.

If you want to see a technical brazilian in Muay Thai then look for Cosmo Alexandre in youtube. He is probably the best brazilian ever in thaiboxing
1/11/09 7:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sultan
103 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/12/06
Posts: 21304
 
1/11/09 7:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bull_in_chinashop
81 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 33672
 hmm I have the Chuteboxe vs. Shootfighting fights. I need to watch it.
1/12/09 6:09 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Diego stole my name
91 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 13074
thx Sultan.

Despite Brazil not being a top MT country. Cosmo has done very well for himself in Thailand. Fought in Lumpini and on Queens birthday. Beat Wanlop and Leonard Sithpolek. Former WMC champion
1/12/09 1:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheBrick
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/18/02
Posts: 533
Ryukyu, thanks great info.

that's some pretty intersting ibo.
1/12/09 1:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheBrick
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/18/02
Posts: 534
Cosmo, is an excellent fighter.

Over the past several years I have seen the level of Brazilian Muay Thai grow at the IFMA World Champioships. I think the same can be said for many coutries.
1/13/09 9:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sultan
103 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/12/06
Posts: 21327
Diego stole my name - thx Sultan.

Despite Brazil not being a top MT country. Cosmo has done very well for himself in Thailand. Fought in Lumpini and on Queens birthday. Beat Wanlop and Leonard Sithpolek. Former WMC champion

 He seems to like that double kick/jumping roundhouse.  He caught a couple of guys with that.
1/14/09 12:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
RMACKD
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/27/04
Posts: 298
This is what started muay thai in Brazil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjbPcAnAwWg
1/14/09 3:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Normal MT
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/14/09 3:43 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 1025
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjbPcAnAwWg 
 I dont get it, Cartoons started Muay Thai in Brazil?
1/14/09 5:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ryukyu Damashi
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/26/04
Posts: 8316
Exactly
2/1/09 6:01 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Kai Tremeche
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/6/00
Posts: 21330
Everyone man their techniques.
...And they're all different.
2/5/09 7:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caniggia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/02
Posts: 61
Sorry Guys, but is really hard to head all those coments, of people that think they know everything, but really don´t.

Some facts:
- MT didnt start with a cartoon in Brazil.
- The first contact Brazil had with MT was from the Thailand consulate, during the 70´s
- The tkd guys were the first to show interest for MT, but the influence was not that big as they say.
- MT was not introduced for a top kru or something, but people involved tried to travel and get more and more information.
- For years, Curitiba was known for having a Thailand stile of MT, and Rio was more a Dith stiles. All the competitions, Chute Boxe wanted to fight with elbows, and the other states didn´t. Curitiba always got really well using knees and the chinch...
- In 1990 Edmar dos anjos won an important competition is USA
- In the 90´s, Chute Boxe started cross training. Vale tudo was a chance to get some money, because with MT you wouldnt surivive.
- Nilson the Castro Won a k1 fight.
- The first Brasilians to fight, and win in Thailand were from Curitiba.
- The problem is that most fighters go to mma because is easier to get money. If they just practice MT could do well in the sport.
- Cosmo is doing really good in Thailand, and for your information, he has been ko by the Chute Boxer Luiz Sorriso.
- Alex Cobra, who did well in Thailand, has been ko twice by chute boxe fighters (Sorriso and Daniel)
- Anderson always liked TKD, but his knowledge in TKD is minimal...
- Some brazilian guys that go for international events, has only 15-20 fights, and fight against 100 fights experience guys.
- Chute Boxer Julinho Borges, is in the netherlands right now. Watch his fights on you tube.
- Chute Boxer Leticia is cleaning the house is Spain...

I´ve practice/foght in USA, netherlands and Thailand. I can say that most of you have a distortion of the reality of Brazilian MT.

If someone is arround, pease check the MT classes of Rafael Cordeiro in Chute Boxe Academy at Huninghton Beach. If you think that he is not a thecnical MT fighter/teacher, than probably the rest of Brazil is not, because he is one of the best.

Rgds,
2/5/09 7:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caniggia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/02
Posts: 62
Sorry Guys, but is really hard to head all those coments, of people that think they know everything, but really don´t.

Some facts:
- MT didnt start with a cartoon in Brazil.
- The first contact Brazil had with MT was from the Thailand consulate, during the 70´s
- The tkd guys were the first to show interest for MT, but the influence was not that big as they say.
- MT was not introduced for a top kru or something, but people involved tried to travel and get more and more information.
- For years, Curitiba was known for having a Thailand stile of MT, and Rio was more a Dith stiles. All the competitions, Chute Boxe wanted to fight with elbows, and the other states didn´t. Curitiba always got really well using knees and the chinch...
- In 1990 Edmar dos anjos won an important competition is USA
- In the 90´s, Chute Boxe started cross training. Vale tudo was a chance to get some money, because with MT you wouldnt surivive.
- Nilson the Castro Won a k1 fight.
- The first Brasilians to fight, and win in Thailand were from Curitiba.
- The problem is that most fighters go to mma because is easier to get money. If they just practice MT could do well in the sport.
- Cosmo is doing really good in Thailand, and for your information, he has been ko by the Chute Boxer Luiz Sorriso.
- Alex Cobra, who did well in Thailand, has been ko twice by chute boxe fighters (Sorriso and Daniel)
- Anderson always liked TKD, but his knowledge in TKD is minimal...
- Some brazilian guys that go for international events, has only 15-20 fights, and fight against 100 fights experience guys.
- Chute Boxer Julinho Borges, is in the netherlands right now. Watch his fights on you tube.
- Chute Boxer Leticia is cleaning the house is Spain...

I´ve practice/foght in USA, netherlands and Thailand. I can say that most of you have a distortion of the reality of Brazilian MT.

If someone is arround, pease check the MT classes of Rafael Cordeiro in Chute Boxe Academy at Huninghton Beach. If you think that he is not a thecnical MT fighter/teacher, than probably the rest of Brazil is not, because he is one of the best.

Rgds,
2/6/09 4:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sevenone
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/27/07
Posts: 61
TTT nice post
2/6/09 5:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Diego stole my name
91 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 13403
"Cosmo is doing really good in Thailand, and for your information, he has been ko by the Chute Boxer Luiz Sorriso"

Yeah in 2004. Before he started training with Pirojnoi and before he moved to Thailand


Also Nilson DeCastro did fight in K-1 in 2002 and won by KO. But it was against a japanese karate guy. The results were different when he fought Nathan Corbett who actually has a good record in Muay Thai


and you are a bit misleading. Doing well in Thailand means beating quality thais. Otherwise Jack Osbourne did well in Thailand. I know Katel Kubis among others were the first to fight in Thailand. But he never beat anyone as good as the guys Cosmo beat.

Alex Cobra i only know about from fighting Orono. No shame in getting KOd by him but he has not beaten anyone as Alexandres opponents


Cosmo is the best muay thai fighter from brazil. He has beaten the best competition of any brazilian and competed at the highest levels. Borges belongs to Team Dekkers now but so far he has not fought in any of the big dutch promotions. Cosmo fought in K-1 Amsterdam
2/10/09 11:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caniggia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/02
Posts: 63
Hello Diego Stole My Name,

Years ago,I read in this forum that Marfio Canoleti was the best MT fighter in Brazil. He was the most popular OUTSIDE Brasil,because of K1, but never the best. When he started fight back in brazilian championchips he lost...

I´m not saying that the Chute Boxe MT is the best, but everyone can be sure that were not a bunch of Taekwendo guys that liked a cartoon that starter MT in Brazil.
Rudimar had a close contact with Thailand military during the second half of the 80´s

About Cosmo, he is duing better than Really good. He deserves all hes win... Great fighter and great person

I´m not starting the " If" because we never know what would happen, but:
Imagine if istead of training MT, BJJ and MMA for the last 15 years, Anderson, Pele, Nilson (...) praticed just MT. I don´t know if they would be world champions, but they could hang with everyone in their weight class.

When I talked about julinho borges, I just was trying tho show that is a big desrespect to say that CB MT is what people were saying without know. O guy who has been to thailand twice, to holland, really thecnical, deserve more respect. The same coes to a 30 years old academy like Chute Boxe.

Is really dificult to live from sports in Brazil. Even Olimpic games atlets dont have sponsors to train. Not many can afford to practice MT without getting paid well from fights. Just a few could find someway to get to thailand.
An average family in Brazil earns US$ 500 per month, and has to pay rend, food, education...
I know some fighters that even being known outiside of Brazil, and having a good MMA record, canot aford to pay the bills at the end of the month... Imagine if they were just in MT!

Rgds,
Guilherme
2/10/09 11:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Caniggia
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/25/02
Posts: 64
Hello Diego Stole My Name,

Years ago,I read in this forum that Marfio Canoleti was the best MT fighter in Brazil. He was the most popular OUTSIDE Brasil,because of K1, but never the best. When he started fight back in brazilian championchips he lost...

I´m not saying that the Chute Boxe MT is the best, but everyone can be sure that were not a bunch of Taekwendo guys that liked a cartoon that starter MT in Brazil.
Rudimar had a close contact with Thailand military during the second half of the 80´s

About Cosmo, he is duing better than Really good. He deserves all hes win... Great fighter and great person

I´m not starting the " If" because we never know what would happen, but:
Imagine if istead of training MT, BJJ and MMA for the last 15 years, Anderson, Pele, Nilson (...) praticed just MT. I don´t know if they would be world champions, but they could hang with everyone in their weight class.

When I talked about julinho borges, I just was trying tho show that is a big desrespect to say that CB MT is what people were saying without know. O guy who has been to thailand twice, to holland, really thecnical, deserve more respect. The same coes to a 30 years old academy like Chute Boxe.

Is really dificult to live from sports in Brazil. Even Olimpic games atlets dont have sponsors to train. Not many can afford to practice MT without getting paid well from fights. Just a few could find someway to get to thailand.
An average family in Brazil earns US$ 500 per month, and has to pay rend, food, education...
I know some fighters that even being known outiside of Brazil, and having a good MMA record, canot aford to pay the bills at the end of the month... Imagine if they were just in MT!

Rgds,
Guilherme
2/10/09 12:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ryukyu Damashi
8 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/26/04
Posts: 8358
Do you know what camp/s in Thailand Chuteboxe fighters might have trained at?

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.