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1/19/09 1:43 PM
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What firearms would you recommend for survival? My list would include:

1) 30-06 - Good for hunting game in the lower 48.

2) .22 Cal LR - Good for smaller game

3) 9mm or .40 cal handgun - Good for personal protection and ammo should be plentiful

4) A .223 or 7.62x39 "assault style" rifle because it looks mean to scare others. Again, ammo should be plentiful.

5) Shotgun for hunting fowl.

That's my list in order. 30-06 could be used for protection, which is why the protection guns are lower on my list.
1/19/09 4:48 PM
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ClayK
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List looks solid, but if you're rolling solo or in a pair, thats a lot of weight to carry. I'd drop the 30-06 in favor of a well built AR or AK. I love my AK due to ease of operation and field stripping. Ammo is cheap and it has enough knockdown power to take down medium game as well as people if the need arises.
1/19/09 5:08 PM
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That's a possibility too. I think the range and accuracy of a good 30-06 is worth having around, but I agree if you need to be on the move and don't have a secure home base, then the AK is probably the better choice. You could always trade the other ones for goods or ammo for a keeper rifle.
1/19/09 5:28 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 list looks good
1/19/09 5:34 PM
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There is a gun shop in Woburn (MA) that carries them although they get them mostly in .40 s&w and not 9mm. I can't remember the name. Likewise there is a official Kel-tec dealer in southern NH. Again, I can't remember the name, but you can find them on Kel-tec's site. As you said, availability is spotty these days on basically anything that isn't a hunting rifle. There is a gun show in Marlboro (MA) this weekend, so there may be some there.

I'm going to start serious looking in another week or two to build up my armament before another AWB comes down. I'm planning on scouting this entire area for a couple pistols and rifles including the kel-tecs. I'll post what I find. I've never been accused of not being thorough. ;)
1/19/09 6:12 PM
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Todd22
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kvr28 -  ph, on your thread on the og you were talking about ar vs kel-tec, I was curious if you can even find a kel-tec locally? I've been looking for the kel-tec sub2000 for a couple of months around here now, one guy laughed at me and said good luck, another one said he hasn't been able to get them for 12 months, I can get them on gunbroker, but they are currently at 550, with a few more days on the auction

Its been my experience that all kep tec guns are hard to come by.
1/19/09 7:39 PM
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I just inquired at the two stores I mentioned. I'll let you know when I hear back.
1/19/09 8:17 PM
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Todd22
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in my experience your best bet is to get a dealer to order you one.
1/19/09 8:30 PM
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ClayK
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Why would you want a sub2000? Why have a 9mm or .40 carbine? Why not leave pistol rounds to pistols? Whats the draw to a shoulder fired small round?

Why not find the SU-16?
1/19/09 8:33 PM
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Store #1) When we get them in now, they are gone before we can unpack them. Your best bet is to place an order with a store. It will be a while before it comes in, but at least one is held for you when it does.


---

I'll let you know store #2 when I hear. The advertised a bunch of lower receivers for AR's, so I'm hoping that's not bait and switch. :)
1/19/09 8:34 PM
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Todd22
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kvr28 -  see thats the thing, I'm not sure how the dealers order guns, you would think that they could just order direct from the factory, but every time I have looked for a gun, my local dealer pulls out a catalog and looks up the price for me, when I asked specifically about the kel-tec, he called me the next day and said all 3 of his suppliers were out and didn't know when they would be getting any, so I guess they have to go thru a middle man, who brokers for many dealers

yea thats what my guy did. Hes a cop and just does that for orders from his house so he can get a good deal on guns... He has some special websites, but the kel tec was out on it so he ordered it from the factory... They are allowed to order factory direct (ffl dealers)
1/19/09 8:37 PM
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Good call, Todd!

Kvr, you get a better price when going through a dealer right now.

Clay, It has an effective range of over 100 yards. With interchangeable magazines with your side arm, it makes packing ammo easy and 100 yards is more than enough in an urban environment. An MP-5 is 9mm, right?
1/21/09 8:02 PM
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ClayK
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Possible Human - Good call, Todd!

Kvr, you get a better price when going through a dealer right now.

Clay, It has an effective range of over 100 yards. With interchangeable magazines with your side arm, it makes packing ammo easy and 100 yards is more than enough in an urban environment. An MP-5 is 9mm, right?


The MP-5 is a 9mm, but there is also a reason why spec op teams and most tactical units that I know use the UMP-45.

How effective is a 9mm @ 100 yards? They have limited knock down power at <25 yards, does it decrease by 4x at that range? I can understand about combined ammo usage, but If I'm going to carry a 9mm or .40 or even a .45, I'd rather it be in a handgun form. My household has combined ammo, but not when multiple styles of weapons. My long guns are all 7.62, my shotguns are 12 guages and my pistols are 9mm.

I'm not bashing you or your thoughts, I'm asking legit questions from my point of view.
1/21/09 8:46 PM
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"The MP-5 is a 9mm, but there is also a reason why spec op teams and most tactical units that I know use the UMP-45.

How effective is a 9mm @ 100 yards? They have limited knock down power at <25 yards, does it decrease by 4x at that range? I can understand about combined ammo usage, but If I'm going to carry a 9mm or .40 or even a .45, I'd rather it be in a handgun form. My household has combined ammo, but not when multiple styles of weapons. My long guns are all 7.62, my shotguns are 12 guages and my pistols are 9mm.

I'm not bashing you or your thoughts, I'm asking legit questions from my point of view. "

Hey Clay... screw you! Just kidding. I completely understand your line of reasoning. I wasn't taking it as bashing. kvr pointed out the main reason why this appealed to me: the ability to collapse it into my backpack. I'd like to long gun with me on long hikes because you never know if you'll get turned around back country or what you'll run into. I'm in and out of touristy spots at times, and an open firearm would alarm many.
1/21/09 9:01 PM
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Cool thing about the order, kvr. Let us know when it comes in and how you like it. I'll be doing the same after heading to a few shows.
1/22/09 2:52 PM
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BTW Clay, what do you have for 7.62?
1/22/09 10:55 PM
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ClayK
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I've got a MAK-90 and my roommate ( and the one guy I'd trust to come with me in a bail out situation) has a SKS.

PH, If you want a folding weapon for hiking, why not get the SU-16?

Still a KelTec, but it fires .223 rounds.
1/23/09 8:03 AM
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"PH, If you want a folding weapon for hiking, why not get the SU-16?

Still a KelTec, but it fires .223 rounds."

There is nearly a foot of difference between a folded sub-2000 and a folded su-16ca. The Sub-2k is a couple inches over 1' and the su-16 is over 2'. That's a sizable difference at those lengths and when talking about including it in a pack with other gear while hiking.

I don't have a .223 rifle though, and I am toying with the idea of a SU-16CA. Instead of getting a cheap AR at nearly double the price, I'd pick one of these guys up and slowly build a real quality AR on my own.
1/23/09 5:45 PM
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ClayK
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I was unaware of the big size difference between the 2000 and the 16. Makes great sense now.

My dad has the 16 that he takes with him when he travels for work ( HAZMAT driver for Union Pacific).
2/17/09 3:14 PM
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I'm picking up my sub-2000 later this week. I had a busy week. I also got a Glock 19, a SKS, and mosin nagant.
2/17/09 6:01 PM
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ClayK
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^ nice pick ups. I'm hoping to find a sub-2000 at the gun show next month.
2/18/09 8:35 AM
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Holy crap. The SKS is entirely covered with cosmoline. The freaking firing pin is frozen into place. I was going to get some goo gone and steam it off. Anybody have any other recommendations?
2/18/09 8:35 AM
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Awesome, Clay. Let us know how you like it.
2/18/09 11:33 AM
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Chilito
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Why not just replace 1 and 4 with an M-1A (or an actual M-14 if you can get one)?
2/18/09 6:33 PM
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ClayK
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Depending on where you live in the country, a lever action 30-30 might be a better rifle than the 30-06. If you're in a wooded area, the shorter 30 will work better in the brush and will not jam.

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