UnderGround Forums
 

SurvivalGround >> Efficient firearms purchases?


2/3/09 4:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkyman
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/02
Posts: 10873
 
 I want to start buying some firearms and I've heard some people discussing the benefits of purchasing both rifles and handguns that share ammunition. If I'm going to purchase different types of guns, I'd like to do it in the most efficient way possible (most bang for my buck so to speak!)

Can anyone elaborate on this and provide suggestions and pros/cons of this?
2/3/09 8:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DiSmAnTLeR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/8/03
Posts: 5122
if you want to get all tacticool you could get a storm carbine/pistol combo. they have interchangable magazines and are a petty similar action so i would assume most of the parts are interchangable. they come in 9mm, .40, and .45

http://www.cx4storm.com/

http://www.px4storm.com/



or if revolvers are more your style then back it up with a henry. they come in most wheelgun calibres 22lr, 22mag, 44mag, 357mag, 45colt

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h006_bigboy.cfm

the pros are interchangable ammo of course. the cons are having a rifle that is limited to carbine length shots.
2/3/09 8:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DiSmAnTLeR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/8/03
Posts: 5123
i shot a henry the first time i went to the indoor range. it was a blast. i felt like daniel fucking boone.
2/4/09 11:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkyman
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/02
Posts: 10885
DiSmAnTLeR - if you want to get all tacticool you could get a storm carbine/pistol combo. they have interchangable magazines and are a petty similar action so i would assume most of the parts are interchangable. they come in 9mm, .40, and .45

http://www.cx4storm.com/

http://www.px4storm.com/



or if revolvers are more your style then back it up with a henry. they come in most wheelgun calibres 22lr, 22mag, 44mag, 357mag, 45colt

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h006_bigboy.cfm

the pros are interchangable ammo of course. the cons are having a rifle that is limited to carbine length shots.
Thanks for the suggestion and links.

Are you saying that the con is that any rifle which uses ammunition from a handgun would have a much shorter range? In your opinion, is this limitation a serious one?

I suppose I could go with a handgun and a rifle that used the same ammo and then have one long range rifle that uses different ammo like a 30-06 or something.

I used to have a chart that showed the ranges, but I guess I deleted it.
 
2/4/09 11:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkyman
48 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/02
Posts: 10886
kvr28 - pros, stocking less types of ammo, if you reload, less investment in dies and types of brass ect

I currently have 5 types of ammo, any time I make a gun purchase now, I make sure I can fit it into what I allready have

cons, deciding what set up you want

there is so many options, I would take a gun safety course where you get a chance to shoot different weapons and base your decision off of that, for example, someone could tell you to get a kel-tec sub 2000 in the 9mm that takes a glock-17 mag and then get a glock 17 and you could stock just the 9mm and be able to swap ammo and mags between the two, so you go out and get the guns and take it home, and the next day you take it the range and then find out because of  your large hands that the glock pinches your hand when you rack the slide, wouldn't be much fun to learn the hard way
Is a 9mm rifle useful for hunting? I suppose it depends on range and size of the animal.

No idea.
 
2/4/09 12:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 932
"Is a 9mm rifle useful for hunting? I suppose it depends on range and size of the animal."

It'd be good for rabbit and other small game I'd imagine.
2/5/09 1:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DiSmAnTLeR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/8/03
Posts: 5133
kvr28 - there is so many options, I would take a gun safety course where you get a chance to shoot different weapons and base your decision off of that, for example, someone could tell you to get a kel-tec sub 2000 in the 9mm that takes a glock-17 mag and then get a glock 17 and you could stock just the 9mm and be able to swap ammo and mags between the two, so you go out and get the guns and take it home, and the next day you take it the range and then find out because of  your large hands that the glock pinches your hand when you rack the slide, wouldn't be much fun to learn the hard way


good point.

the storm's grip can be customized to fit your hand.
2/5/09 1:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DiSmAnTLeR
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/8/03
Posts: 5134
sparkyman - Thanks for the suggestion and links.

Are you saying that the con is that any rifle which uses ammunition from a handgun would have a much shorter range? In your opinion, is this limitation a serious one?

I suppose I could go with a handgun and a rifle that used the same ammo and then have one long range rifle that uses different ammo like a 30-06 or something.

I used to have a chart that showed the ranges, but I guess I deleted it.
 



pistol calibre carbine has a shorter range than a high powered rifle. the seriousness of this limitation depends on your enviroment. most urban encounters will be close quarters and you can carry a lot more pistol ammo than rifle ammo.

i prefer assault rifles over carbines though. im deciding between a bushmaster AR10 and a remington R10, basically the same gun. in a firefight, id rather be the guy shooting 308.
2/5/09 9:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
27CrazyFeet
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/02
Posts: 1393
I have a keltec sub2k that use the same mags as my handguns. Same ammo as well. The keltec is "accurate" to about 100 yards. It is probably my favorite gun but it is definitely not a rifle or a substitute for a rifle. But if you are mainly concerned with 0-75 yards its a great firearm.

if all you ever had was a 9mm or .40 which are common calibers for pistol caliber carbines you would be able to carry a hand gun big and small, defend your house with pistols and carbines and yes if SHTF you could hunt and harvest game with it as well..

That being said I am still glad I have a few rifles and shotguns.

Shotguns are very very versatile weapons.
2/5/09 12:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
27CrazyFeet
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/02
Posts: 1399
i have the 9mm and i really like it.

you may need to break it in a bit.. after the first 200 rounds mine has been flawless.
2/5/09 1:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 959
After seeing the new stock for the Hi-point, I'm torn between the two. I think I'll end up with Kel-tec just because of the sharing of magazines being a great feature along with the fact I can easily put it in a backpack.
2/5/09 3:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
27CrazyFeet
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/02
Posts: 1401
they fit really nice in a laptop carry case which is nice.
and yes sharing the same 33rd magazines as my glock is a great bonus.

I wont rag on hi point for quality or cost or anything but the hi cap magazine feature of the kel tec really helped my decision.

I actually purchased the kel tec first because I found a great deal and then a few weeks later ordered my glock.

Honestly I dont fold it up that much but it does make transporting it a bit easier. I wouldnt mount an optic on the carbine anyway so I dont mind that folding kinda prevents that.
2/6/09 10:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
armlok
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2335
Survival....all you really need is a good .22 rifle and pistol for small/med-sized game. If you have skills, you can get in close enough to bag even deer. If you don't have hunting skills, nothing but luck is gonna help. Close range and multiple rounds or one accurately placed round will suffice for occasional peoples too. Ammo is easy to carry and procure/cheap.

That said people will probably need at least a .38spl or better pistol and a .308 MBR for possible hostilities, a shotty around the house/yard if not mobile is a good extra.

'06 is a good bolt-gun round, but few choices in any type of semi mag rifle, consider it a specialty piece, if you have one then its for range and power or hunt bigger animals. .223 is good for a carbine, but that's it.

A pistol caliber carbine adds more to your load and accomplishes little if you get into a real fight. You need something with adequate penetration for hardcover penetration and/or standoff range. 30 odd-rd mag of 9mm is a poor performer in comparison to 20rds of .308 wouldn't you say??
2/7/09 9:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
27CrazyFeet
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/02
Posts: 1416
obviously a 9mm cant compare ballistically with a 308

but a 308 is more expensive, has more recoil, takes up more space and that power might not even be necessary.

there are always trade offs and people need to educate themselves and then get good training. that is the only way to make GOOD educated decisions..

for me the kel tec definitely fills in a gap. also it is fun as shit and i really enjoy its overall usefulness pre SHTF

I also use it for training and education purposes. most new shooters would get scared away if i gave them a fal and had them try to shoot that first. my lil 9mm carbine has people w/ a big smile on there face and doing some cool useful drills in MINUTES.. also saves me some $$$$...

after shooting that normally they ask hey can i try that one .. or that one..
2/7/09 10:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 982
Found this on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRavtUA9gMs

The guy owns the Hi-Point, Kel-tec, and Beretta 9mm carbines, reviews them, and test fires them.

Nice to see from somebody that owns them all.
2/7/09 12:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WHIPCRACK
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/12/04
Posts: 8070
2/8/09 5:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
armlok
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2361
27CrazyFeet - obviously a 9mm cant compare ballistically with a 308

but a 308 is more expensive, has more recoil, takes up more space and that power might not even be necessary.

there are always trade offs and people need to educate themselves and then get good training. that is the only way to make GOOD educated decisions..

for me the kel tec definitely fills in a gap. also it is fun as shit and i really enjoy its overall usefulness pre SHTF

I also use it for training and education purposes. most new shooters would get scared away if i gave them a fal and had them try to shoot that first. my lil 9mm carbine has people w/ a big smile on there face and doing some cool useful drills in MINUTES.. also saves me some $$$$...

after shooting that normally they ask hey can i try that one .. or that one..


Again:

"A pistol caliber carbine adds more to your load and accomplishes little if you get into a real fight. You need something with adequate penetration for hardcover penetration and/or standoff range."


In an urban environment having ability to defeat harder cover or targets would be of great importance to me. In a rural environment standoff distance likewise concerns me. Neither can be accomplished with a pistol caliber carbine.

We cannot predict what could be "necessary," but we must plan for a broad spectrum of issues and events, therefore the addition of a MBR type rifle should be major consideration for survival.

JMHO
2/9/09 8:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
27CrazyFeet
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/10/02
Posts: 1417
i never said i would load up the keltec with me when i flee.

how many things have you thinking about packing up your whole house and heading to the mountains.. if so you need to take a step back and realize that the carbine will be one of the least important items on your list.. and you will most likely wish you spent 10x the money on training and classes then you have on firearms.

i listed a whole bunch of reasons why the kel tec is awesome. i am not living in fantasy land with my face painted in camo and my 75lb rucksack on my back waiting for a mushroom cloud.

every firearm purchase can be criticized a hundred times over. do you need 5 ar15's? maybe? should the money go towards training? probably? do you have spare parts kits for all your weapons? doubtful? when was your last visit to gunsite? do you have heirloom seeds? do you have buckets of wheat/rice/beans? how would you move them if you had to flee???


again:
there are always trade offs and people need to educate themselves and then get good training. that is the only way to make GOOD educated decision
2/9/09 11:35 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 1014
Did you guys read the thread about the Argentinian economic collapse? A guy who lived through it put great weight on owning a handgun first as well as having a carbine or sub-machine gun in the same caliber. To be fair he did mention a 7.62x39 or 308 to penetrate hard cover, but he said that is of minor important comparatively. In a mushroom cloud, end of the world as we know it scenario, the MBR becomes more important. I just don't find that likely.
2/9/09 7:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
armlok
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2367
where did I state my intention of fleeing all camo'd with a 75lb ruck while fleeing the coming mushroom cloud??? Thanks for the advice on training.

I addressed the attributes that a MBR type weapon adds to one's survival in both an urban and rural setting. Obviously a pistol or pistol carbine makes for a convenient, satisfactory close range defense weapon. The larger (mid-bore)rifle-caliber semi-auto MBRprovides the previously stated benefits to one's "load" whether that load is mobile (bugging out) or fixed position (bugging-in).

IMO a person can make-do with only a pistol and MBR; a carbine and shotgun are nice to haves and would be secondary purchases perhaps to, as you advocate, training, food and other supplies. Obviously an MBR or carbine cannot take the place of a pistol, but a MBR can function easily as a sole longarm as it can do all a carbine can do but a carbine cannot do all it can do imo.

Also, in the case of family members, a layered approach to firearms outfitting whereby smaller stature females or teens armed with smaller-bore rifle/pistol caliber carbines. There is where the role of a carbine would work very well for survival and unrest scenarios.
2/16/09 8:08 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 1079
Nice. I tracked down a Kel-tec Sub-2000. I paid a few bucks more than retail, but I'm picking it up later this week. I'll hit the range as well.
2/18/09 11:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Chilito
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/26/05
Posts: 184
Lever action .357 with a revolver of the same caliber.

You'd hav a a lot of options ammo wise. Cheap, easy to manage .38's up to the super magnum .357.
2/22/09 10:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
gregbrady
83 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/9/02
Posts: 2621
^That would be exactly what I would pick. A .357 out of a rifle barrel is no joke. A skilled lever-action shooter can put as many AIMED shots on target as a semi-auto.
2/23/09 1:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
kanotoa
81 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 27418
I read that Argentine collapse blog but i am still going to buy a Mini 14. The price has gone up but I figure I should get one now. I already have a glock 27 and I want to get a small pistol for my wife.
2/23/09 1:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Possible Human
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/16/06
Posts: 1138
Why not get a cheap AR, kanatoa?

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.