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SurvivalGround >> Yachts - the ultimate bug out?


3/2/09 9:41 AM
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TEOMOFE
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Edited: 03/02/09 9:44 AM
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I'm sure I'm not the only shmuck to think of this, but I hardly ever see the idea discussed. I'd like some input from you guys.

If you think about it, a yacht (say 32 - 45 feet) is a great example of a (almost) self sustaining environment. IMHO, it seems like a great way to pull up stumps and fuck off if things turn sour.

Advantages:

Power? Supplied via solar panels and inverters. Boating equipment, while costly, is low, low power. Additional power provided by propane if needs be. I checked into this a little and it seems for around $5000 or so you can get together a very potent solar system.

Water? De-salination. Rain water collection. Water condensers.

Cooking? Solar ovens, BBQ, propane camping cookers

Heating? Propane for cooking and heating water. Solar water heaters.

Cooling? Water fed, circulating air cons.

Transport? Diesel motor for maneuverability, sails for long distance. (I recall reading a blog of a guy who sailed from Paris to Sydney in 3 weeks on sail power alone. That's probably optimistic, but the idea seems valid)

Food? Trailing hydroponics pontoons are not unknown - obviously above and beyond what a sensible person will store in dry food, freeze etc

http://www.weliveonaboat.com/

I dunno...it seems like a pretty sweet set up, but I've gotta be missing something. Thoughts?

PS: Yes, buying the boat is a big cost (say, $20-50,000. And the issue of maintenance can't be overlooked. Still - do you think it balances out?)
3/2/09 10:10 AM
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TEOMOFE
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Sorry - that should be 'buying a second hand boat'. I know the new ones are ass expensive
3/2/09 1:55 PM
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kanotoa
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I heard rich people we abandoning perfectly fine boats because they couldn't afford to moor and upkeep them. Maybe you could score one for free, mabe get 10 and lash them together and make your own country.
3/2/09 2:39 PM
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Possible Human
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Maintenance would be a gigantic time investment from what I hear. I think you'd have to have a fair amount on nautical know-how in terms of boat structure and engines in order for this to be feasible.
3/2/09 10:19 PM
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johnnypayne
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you're thinking too small, I'm currently in the process of designing a 62 foot liveaboard brown water cruiser, so long as you have a route to the sea, a boat is a suvival must.
3/2/09 10:27 PM
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jaywill
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definitely would need a little boat that ramps on a quad or utv then for the trips to land. this ones cool.
http://www.admiraldrive.com/float_overview.html
3/3/09 12:44 AM
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ClayK
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I looked at a small live aboard sail boat. Too much up front costs for most. It was a great option when I still lived in South Florida. The idea of hopping in the boat and hauling ass the the Caribbean if things got bad here is nice.
3/4/09 12:42 PM
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GaryG
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Seems like you'd be very vulnerable to pirates. If your on a sailboat and they're in a powerboat seems like they'd have a big advantage.

Forget about defending against a plane + boat.

If your in a wilderness setting you'd probably have a few more options to evade discovery or at least escape in the event of an attack.
3/5/09 2:31 AM
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Mjollnir
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I live aboard my 44' Newporter. Its a bluewater sailboat capable of extended ocean passages. Properly provisioned it could easily/comfortably sustain 4 people for 6 months or better out at sea.
I call it my escape pod. I posted about this on the OG but it sank fast.
3/5/09 2:35 AM
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Mjollnir
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 S/V Resolute under sail:


3/5/09 8:43 AM
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Possible Human
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Nice boat, skipper.
3/5/09 10:39 AM
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GaryG - Seems like you'd be very vulnerable to pirates. If your on a sailboat and they're in a powerboat seems like they'd have a big advantage.

Forget about defending against a plane + boat.


I think you may have watched Waterworld one time to many.
3/5/09 11:31 AM
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jaywill
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quick - 
GaryG - Seems like you'd be very vulnerable to pirates. If your on a sailboat and they're in a powerboat seems like they'd have a big advantage.

Forget about defending against a plane + boat.


I think you may have watched Waterworld one time to many.


believe it or not pirates still roam the waters, they just dont have sailboats and parrots, rather Ak-47's and jet boats.
3/5/09 12:15 PM
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If shit hits the fan to the point that you are having to retreat to a sailboat then I think it might be safe to assume fuel is in short supply. So a bunch of Somali's with RPGs become significantly less of a threat when their jet boats have no fuel.
3/5/09 3:02 PM
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GaryG
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quick - If shit hits the fan to the point that you are having to retreat to a sailboat then I think it might be safe to assume fuel is in short supply. So a bunch of Somali's with RPGs become significantly less of a threat when their jet boats have no fuel.


The shit has hit the fan in somalia and the pirates have gas.

Actually my bigger concern would be corrupt government soldiers, police, and drug smugglers involved in piracy. They'd have govt resources and/or drug money deep pockets.

"I think you may have watched Waterworld one time to many." LOL I've never seen it but you may have a point. Remember just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't after me.....

My point really is for Mjollnar a sailboat might be great, but my comfort zone would be wilderness.
3/5/09 9:41 PM
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GaryG - The shit has hit the fan in somalia and the pirates have gas.


Compared to the US maybe it looks like shit has hit the fan, but Somalia just looks like the shit hole third world country, in Africa, that it is. Shit hit the fan during the 90's when they had the famine, but even that might look pleasant compared to what it would if a world wide economic collapse happened.

GaryG -Actually my bigger concern would be corrupt government soldiers, police, and drug smugglers involved in piracy. They'd have govt resources and/or drug money deep pockets.


I am not sure I am following your train of thought. Why would you be more concerned with them at sea than on land?

GaryG -My point really is for Mjollnar a sailboat might be great, but my comfort zone would be wilderness.


Obviously I'm not going to argue with you about sticking to your comfort zone, but I am of the mind that heading to the "wilderness" isn't going to turn out being the safety net that some assume.
3/6/09 12:23 AM
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sourcheese
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Mjollnir what would it take for me to learn how to sail a catamoran? (spelling is off as I am intoxicated)
3/6/09 9:34 AM
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smartin
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A sailboat is a good option. I read a blog of a guy who sailed around the world for 8k$ including the cost of the boat. There are a number of boats in the 30' range that are world capable and can be found for under 25k. If you are the adventurous type.
http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Affordable-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837722/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236349964&sr=1-3
3/6/09 10:17 AM
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Possible Human
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"What would really kick ass would be a diesel generator/electric motor submarine, similar to and old school WWII one. Use solar power to charge your batteries or diesel worst cast. Mount a 40-80mm gun on the deck, and bam, your set for long voyages, and can take on coastal strongholds. "

This reminded of a guy who turned a milk tanker attachment for a big rig into a boat. It was air tight, so unless it broke in half, water wasn't getting that thing to sink it. It ended being an amphibious vehicle. He drove it from the US to South America, and then he boated back.
3/6/09 10:23 AM
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GaryG
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smartin - A sailboat is a good option. I read a blog of a guy who sailed around the world for 8k$ including the cost of the boat. There are a number of boats in the 30' range that are world capable and can be found for under 25k. If you are the adventurous type.
http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Affordable-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837722/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236349964&sr=1-3


I actually have that book in my cart with amazon. Mostly because I think it would be a cool way to see the world.

I'd be interested in reading the blog you mention, could you post his web addy?

"I am not sure I am following your train of thought. Why would you be more concerned with them at sea than on land?"

My perception is once your spotted on the ocean you've got fewer options for concealment and cover from gunfire. Going into unknown ports for resupply you'd also be exposing yourself to theft or kidnapping etc.

"What would really kick ass would be a diesel generator/electric motor submarine, similar to and old school WWII one. Use solar power to charge your batteries or diesel worst cast. Mount a 40-80mm gun on the deck, and bam, your set for long voyages, and can take on coastal strongholds."

Google personal submarines, they're out there, but I'd need to win a big lottery to own one. But as you say it would be very cool.
3/6/09 11:57 AM
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smartin
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Sailboat is the only real practical way for your average guy to see the world. You can have a very seaworthy well equipped cruiser for the price of a used car. The commitment to the lifestyle and gaining the skills is the hard part. Get a good SSB radio and you can monitor radio traffic around the world.

I'll try to find the blog. There are a lot of them on the various cruising websites. They are also a good source of info for anyone wanting to learn more about sailing and the cruising life.
3/6/09 12:00 PM
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Anybody read that "Bezerk" book about the dude who sailed from Europe to South America on his own in a 27' sail boat, picked up 2 guys in Argentina that had never sailed a day in there life, and then headed to Antarctica?
3/6/09 1:48 PM
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GaryG - My perception is once your spotted on the ocean you've got fewer options for concealment and cover from gunfire. Going into unknown ports for resupply you'd also be exposing yourself to theft or kidnapping etc.


The ocean is a vast place and if you want to disappear out there you could, but if you are spotted you are going to see them just as soon as they see you. And going into a port will be no less dangerous than going into an unfamiliar town to trade. Just food for thought.
3/6/09 9:33 PM
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Mjollnir
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They made ferro-cement boats for awhile and half of them disolved/broke up due to some type of electrolosis problems. I don't believe anyone is making cement boats anymore (except maybe hobby guys). You cannot get insurance for a cement hull (as a result you can pick-up a cement boat for pennies). Don't know if the same would apply to a sub.
3/6/09 9:38 PM
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Mjollnir
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kvr28 - very nice, do you keep it docked in the same place or sail to different locales? I knew a guy who would dock in maine for the summer and sail to the bahamas for the winter



I've been kind of moving since I got the boat in San Diego. I lived aboard there for over a year, sailed it to Seattle (been here a year), and I'm leaving for AK next month. After the summer in AK I'll be looking to sail somewhere warmer (though I think Seattle will be my new home port)

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