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PhilosophyGround >> Best Critical Response to Nietzsche?


6/11/09 11:57 AM
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None So Blind
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 http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Social-Psychology-Fourth-Set/dp/0195213769/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244735201&sr=8-1

Not the most up-to-date text, but should give you a good start :-) 

Note - yes, it's a 2000 page textbook, it's really only the chapter Batson wrote that would be of interest to you (Volume 2, pages 282-317). I think the selection of Batson to write that chapter is fascinating, given that most of the field of social psychology disagrees with him - i.e., they think humans are incapable of acting from anything other than pure self-interest.
6/11/09 12:42 PM
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Joe Ray
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None So Blind - He has some interesting research that seems to suggest that in direct competition across species, those species which are cooperative (and prior to that, have enough empathy to note who needs help, which then leads to cooperation) are more successful than those that are competitive within species, or even those that are a mix of competition and cooperation, but without any empathy guiding those who require altruistic intervention (i.e., those that cooperate purely out of self-interest).



That is to be expected, altruism is the herd value par excellence. And I don't neccessarily mean that as a criticism.

Nietzsche takes target at these herd values becoming our highest dominant values because he believes they are hostile to the flourishing of great creative geniuses.
6/11/09 1:28 PM
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sanguine cynic
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Why is the great creative genius what we should all strive for? Or the most excellent thing a human can be?

Sounds more like Nietzsche trying to aggrandize or justify himself.
6/11/09 3:09 PM
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Joe Ray
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Nietzsche ranks art as the highest form of human activity and considers true greatness of human achievement to be synonomous with great feats of creative endeavour. For instance, Shakespeare, Beethoven etc.


"Sounds more like Nietzsche trying to aggrandize or justify himself. "

No shit.
6/11/09 3:15 PM
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sanguine cynic
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"Nietzsche ranks art as the highest form of human activity and considers true greatness of human achievement to be synonomous with great feats of creative endeavour. For instance, Shakespeare, Beethoven etc."

Does he ever give a good reason why art should be the highest form of human activity?
6/12/09 5:46 AM
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Joe Ray
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He does somewhere but his exact reasoning escapes me for the time.
6/12/09 8:15 AM
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None So Blind
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Joe Ray - 
None So Blind - He has some interesting research that seems to suggest that in direct competition across species, those species which are cooperative (and prior to that, have enough empathy to note who needs help, which then leads to cooperation) are more successful than those that are competitive within species, or even those that are a mix of competition and cooperation, but without any empathy guiding those who require altruistic intervention (i.e., those that cooperate purely out of self-interest).

 



That is to be expected, altruism is the herd value par excellence. And I don't neccessarily mean that as a criticism.

Nietzsche takes target at these herd values becoming our highest dominant values because he believes they are hostile to the flourishing of great creative geniuses.
I don't think we're disagreeing - the altruism and creativity don't have to be mutually exclusive - the altruism just makes the species more successful, and thus I would imagine provide more opportunities for creativity via more members of the species... 
 
5/26/11 11:25 AM
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Turd Furguson
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just getting in here to boost my post count. nothing to see here.
5/27/11 12:30 PM
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Voluntaryist
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check out Stefan Molyneux
9/8/12 12:26 AM
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hiptosser
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sanguine cynic - "True, but Nietzsche also attacked happiness as an ideal and a goal. It leads one to seek comfort and security and to become averse to suffering. In short, valuing your own happiness above all else leads you to become soft and decadent. "

I disagree. There is tons of psychological evidence that the happier you are the stronger you are and the better able you are to face life's problems.

Positive and negative emotions exist in upwards and downwards spirals.

The more positive emotions you feel, the more this habit becomes ingrained in your brain and the more likely you are to interpret future events as positive. Which leads you to have more positive events, which causes you to further develop the habit of viewing things positively which even furhter produces more positive events.

Negativity works in the same way..but what we would call a downward spiral.

In fact, the best way to become stronger is to become happier.

I recommend the book "Positivity" by UNC Psychologist Barbara Frederickson, it's probably the best book on how to get happier ever written.


Numerous psychologists who have spent time with the Dalai Lama have agreed that he is unlike anyone else they have ever met in his amazing ability to quickly recover from hearing bad news or from a negative emotion.

Happiness as an ideal and goal, has been under attack by Eastern thought ,famously by the Buddha.

The Dali Lama also is and has been at odds with the rest of the Buddhism by taking the position happiness is a goal.

My crude paraphrasing of Nietzsche on this matter is that happiness in and of itself is not something to be chased after. What is happiness if one is not a self actualized being. There are plenty of fat, stupid, happy people who can ignore bad news and keep on being happy idiots. Nietzsche's nihilistic last man is plenty happy.
Heidegger would point out the inauthentic man, who never truly thinks (he using think in a different way which is a whole different discussion) is happy.

Do you think when some one like Solzhenitsyn was considering the ideal of happiness when he saw men ground into dust in the gulag? Look at the strength and knowledge of his own person he gained as result of his ordeal. Or Nietzsche for masses would be Connan on the Wheel of Pain.

Happiness in the deepest sense is a benefit of self mastery.
9/8/12 12:32 AM
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hiptosser
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I think the most honest criticism of Nietzsche from a trained philosopher was "he is wrong, I just can't tell you why"
I have forgotten the name.

If what he is saying is actually understood, he is difficult to take down honestly.

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