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JKD UnderGround >> Modern Army Combatives Prog.


4/1/09 11:38 AM
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Ideologic
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Warning! 265 page pdf link!

http://www.wabujitsu.com/fm3_25x150.pdf

The whole program right there. I was hoping we could discuss. Seems fairly JKD in it's approach, taking the conditions imposed on a soldier (fighting with rifles, knives, heavy gear and helmets on, boots on, fighting in a group, etc) and making a program to fit their needs.

What do you like? What do you not like? What sticks out? Anybody have direct experience?
4/1/09 7:47 PM
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Edited: 04/16/09 5:00 PM
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Ideologic - Warning! 265 page pdf link!

http://www.wabujitsu.com/fm3_25x150.pdf

The whole program right there. I was hoping we could discuss. Seems fairly JKD in it's approach, taking the conditions imposed on a soldier (fighting with rifles, knives, heavy gear and helmets on, boots on, fighting in a group, etc) and making a program to fit their needs.
What do you like? What do you not like? What sticks out? Anybody have direct experience?
Hello,
The publishing date for the FM3-25.150 was 2002. Sgt. Matt Larsen was ordered to analyze the previous Combatives system that was used by the Army and to come back with his report, (I think he said that that was back in 98) anyway, his report basically said, "It useless", His superior said, "Fix it". 

(Found this on an article about Damien Stelly- ---life changed in 2004 when the Chief of Staff of the Army, General Peter Schoomaker, made an Army-wide policy that all soldiers would be trained in hand-to-hand combatives. Up until then hand-to-hand was practiced mostly by elite units while the rest of the force abandoned it as a relic of past wars. )

Matt had the forethought to contact some of the best Martial Arts Instructors and find a core art that could be taught to everybody in the Army  (all1.5 million were ordered to undergo training in the MACP "Modern Army Combatives Program", on a yearly basis) and to break it down into a course and a set procedure.
He uses Basic BJJ as Level I course. Stand -up grappling, Judo / Greco in Level II. West. Boxing / Thai Boxing at Level III. And Dog Brothers Weapons is used as Level IV. That is the basic synopsis, it has evolved greatly since this outline formed

And again you have to remember that since 2002, the learning curve for the Army and the need for MACP to be instilled into soldiers heading out to 2 Wars and what with other Global Military commitments, Matt Larsen has basically performed a major miracle, and we should all be proud of this Patriotic American.
He has also instituted a competitive element to the Program (you may have seen some of these soldiers fighting on some of your local MMA fight cards) so the warriors could excel and test their fighting abilities before they would have to do it under fire.

If you want to know anything about MACP, feel free to post your questions on Soldier Ground in the Community Forums section. There are a lot of trainees and Instructors there that can give you first hand accounts.
I hope that helps some.

 
4/2/09 10:43 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Edited: 04/02/09 10:43 AM
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I have talked to Matt a bit. a friend of mine Jason keaton is always on this thread and on the soilder forum. Great guy and teaches the combatives program at Ft Knox, he will let you know what it is all about, for real, without the fluff.

Ideologic. 99% of the guys out here do not want to discuss this stuff, fire arm, equipment. stc. They will think you are some nut in a world of conspiracy and gloom.

There are much better sites for this topic then here.
My.02
4/3/09 1:38 PM
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Ideologic
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Well, I thought the reason I posted this in the JKD forum was kind of clear, but let me state my goals clearer.

Sgt. Larsen has basically created a JKD-style program for the Army, right? BJJ, Judo, Greco, Boxing, Muay Thai, stick and knife, etc. Soldiers should be ready for whatever fighting range they find themselves in, whether it is face-to-face or 500 yards away. Weapons or no.

Now, these applications may not directly apply to civilians (rifle with bayonet attached, etc), but the philosophy is pretty darn JKD if you ask me. Would you agree? My hope is that we could discuss the underlying philosophy of this program, and why he chose the arts he chose to include.

A lot of what those guys are doing seems to directly correlate with a lot of our (JKD people) personal goals. Not a specialist approach, but a broader general combat picture designed to be adapted to a given situation.

Is this a good model to follow? What I mean is, in a given month, wouldn't a good JKD practitioner touch on most of those disciplines at least once?

I am not trying to critique what the Army is doing, or trying to get in contact with anybody regarding the program, I wanna discuss it in the philosophical context of JKD, amongst JKD-minded folks. If nobody is interested, that's cool, just trying to breathe some life into this discussion!
4/3/09 5:31 PM
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Sorry, my bad.
I thought you were interested in the Combatives Program.
Matt proabably couldnt care less about Bruce Lee & JKD philosophical context. He's teaching people to kill other people.
Later
4/4/09 1:08 PM
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PoundforPound
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Ideologic - Sgt. Larsen has basically created a JKD-style program for the Army, right? BJJ, Judo, Greco, Boxing, Muay Thai, stick and knife, etc.


BJJ + Judo + Greco + Boxing + Muay Thai = MMA.
4/4/09 3:23 PM
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Ideologic
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Ok. Zero interest. Got it.
4/5/09 5:03 PM
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Ideologic - Ok. Zero interest. Got it.
Not to breathe anymore life into this thread if you want it to die, but I think Matt has created about 2000 Instructors (Level's 1-4)  approx. so far the last I heard, and they will proabably be opening up shop when they leave the Army. When all is said and done, you will be hearing more about MACP.
 
4/6/09 5:32 PM
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Joe Maffei
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Ideologic

What I hear,, and don't "" me. is the program is vary basic. Matt himself has told me it is to teach very basic MMA to large groups, hundreds at a time. Taking into consideration military doctrine type stuff etc etc etc blah blah.

The jit.s maybe blue belt level.
they got some stick stuff from marc, . They use shock knife in many scenarios. throws from judo .a lot of the guys do extra training on their own and roll from base to base.

Their equipment is standard issue with exception to mission specific teams as usual. and so fourth.

You probably have more training then most in MMA but if you wanted to get more mission specific yourself do what you are doing and get out of the sport mentality and more urban/wilderness concept.
4/22/09 1:36 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Hey all,

just saw this. One fo the underlying principles is what we canll "trainability". Each level Builds upon the previous. It is taught in a way that someone who may only pick it up from time to time can teach it effectively to a group.


It's basic stuff. People always criticize our proggram because of certain moves that are in it when it really doesn't matter.


If it had any influence from JKD it would be mor like the functional JKD stuff/
4/23/09 3:44 PM
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 Hey Jason,
Here at Ft Bragg right now, I'm working with Jeremiahs Lancasters group, they have some Thai fights coming up. I only see the good of training more people in a more realistic format. Using my daughters comp sucks, anyway talk to you later.
Dave Rogers 
4/28/09 2:52 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Dave,

We are going to have to do something about getting you here before the Army Championships
4/29/09 7:17 PM
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Hey Jason,
I'd be honored, when is the event?
Never been to KY before exxcept in passing through.
Send me an e-mail when you get a chance.
kalimuay@fgi.net
5/8/09 7:32 PM
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Edited: 05/09/09 12:50 AM
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If this link doesnt work, search for "Recon: Close Combat" video.
http://pentagontv.feedroom.com/?fr_story=b8adebaf14392ba1ffb6af1dc745508fe85cd281&rf=bm


Army and Marines video on the Pentagon Channel, couldnt get it to embed though, I hate computers.
Note on the video says that the Army has over 47,000 Level I Instructors so far.   
5/9/09 6:12 AM
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laqueus
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What I liked were the tweaks for a non sports environment. For instance in the video for Level 1 it mentions that the olympic/Gable grip is stronger, but recommends the chain/indian grip because it protects the fingers from being broken. That kind of stuff is pretty useful as it's not often thought about.
5/9/09 12:18 PM
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 Matt Larsen is a great teacher, I was at Ft Bragg and had a chance to sit in on one of his classes to a group on "How to Teach",
He is very articulate and reminds me to a degree on how Guro Dan teaches. He doesnt have his depth of MA knowledge (like anybody does) but he has the same quality.
5/11/09 1:24 PM
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JasonKeaton
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Love that video!\


Matt is one of the best teachers I have met. He certainly has influenced how I teach and not just MACP
5/11/09 9:04 PM
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PoundforPound
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Where can one find this Level 1 video?
5/12/09 1:08 AM
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laqueus
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http://www.mpuca.com/index_files/Page9685.htm is one place
5/12/09 6:26 AM
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Edited: 05/12/09 6:30 AM
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laqueus - http://www.mpuca.com/index_files/Page9685.htm  is one place

  If your looking at their online store for any books, the book "H2H" by Greg Thompson is the first book written on MACP & endorsed by Matt and the Army.
5/13/09 2:09 PM
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BEEF & CHEESE
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Thompson's book is a must have.
10/23/09 8:48 AM
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JasonKeaton
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Also, if you are intterested in more tactical training, Thompson has a program called Specal Operators Combatives Program or S.O.C.P.. I am hoping to attend a course soon.
10/23/09 12:29 PM
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 Hey Jason,
You going out to Ft Bragg or is Gregg travelling around? I got to get back out there, maybe Xmas.

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