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4/16/09 2:42 PM
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goku
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"of course not,but I think it @least gives me due course to enter the premises @least once & retrieve property."

look above,i already addressed this argument...generally you have the right to enter or you don't...the repo scenario is not the same ...you are claiming you have a right to enter because your name is on the lease not because they have property that belongs to you (and im not even sure if a repo man can simply enter your house to take possession of something anyways)
4/16/09 2:48 PM
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voorhees
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Goku,OBVIOUSLY I "have the right to go in,or I dont."


I am trying to find out which one friend.
4/16/09 5:07 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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"of course not,but I think it @least gives me due course to enter the premises @least once & retrieve property."

This is precisely the problem. You WANT to retrieve the property, so you WANT the loophole to ensure you have that right. No one here believes you do.

You demonstrated the intent to leave. You left. You haven't paid rent. You haven't lived there. You don't have a key & you have to yank the landlord around to get one. No judge is gonna buy that you have the right to stroll right on in.

Your name is only on the lease because of the landlord's BS policies that he uses to generate tertiary income. Judges hate bullshitters & aren't as gullible as you apparently think they are. They hate people who take the law into their own hands even more. There is no way you are gonna walk out of that courtroom unscathed, should it come to that.

The correct legal course of action for you is to a> negotiate with the chick for your shit, & B. take her to small claims if that fails & you think you have enough proof that it's yours.

B&E is B&E. You are going nowhere fast with that, so quit digging in your heels to win an argument just because you've committed a little thought & a thread to it.
4/16/09 5:16 PM
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voorhees
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This is precisely the problem. You WANT to retrieve the property, so you WANT the loophole to ensure you have that right. No one here believes you do.



You are the only one here who has said that.

I am not trying to win an argument,I just am exploring all my options.
4/16/09 5:24 PM
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voorhees
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In fact I am not trying to argue at all,I appreciate your input.
4/16/09 5:28 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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"You are the only one here who has said that."


goku: "you can also assume that even if your name is on the lease, because you are not making payments, you are not entitled to enter the property without her permission"

goku: "either you have the right to enter the property or you don't...i don't think you do..."

gannon: "there is about a 100% chance that she'll call the police and charge you with burglary etc."

jpabk: "your plan...almost certainly involves you paying three months of extra rent."

crypes: "getting a key could validate her arguement of you being on the lease and owing her money...seems like you could put yourself in a position you dont want to be in"

fightpreview: "she could say you stole it and bring you up on charges and line up witnesses to say they have seen it in her place recently before you came and got it."
4/16/09 5:30 PM
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PittWrestler
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dude the attorney and your time (provided you are employed) will exceed 1,000, its got to be more of a personal fight right?

Heck, Goku's spent more than $1,000 in time on this, though some corporation will be picking that up.
4/16/09 5:32 PM
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voorhees
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Bark,Which one of those quotes said I have no right to enter the apartment besides maybe Gokus?

The rest are all speculation and are basically telling me what could happen and those guys later all just more or less told me that right or wrong this is all not worth it.
4/16/09 5:37 PM
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BarkLikeADog
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Edited: 04/16/09 5:37 PM
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^Aside from goku's which outright says it, the rest all *imply* that you don't belong there. Everything you read on this forum is speculation; that goes without saying. #1 you haven't posted the relevant jurisdiction & paperwork, #2 it's right there in the subforum disclaimer.
4/16/09 5:42 PM
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PittWrestler
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Everything in law is speculation.
4/17/09 1:31 AM
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GladiatorGannon
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voorhee's, even if you're "right" in a narrow, legalistic sense (quite possible), it's probably a really bad idea.


it is EXTRMELY easy to get labeled as a "dangerous stalker" nowadays, and it will follow you for the rest of your life.

even if the cops decide they can't charge you, she's going to ask how she can keep you out, they're going to say "court order", and BY FAR the easiest one to get is a Domestic Restraining Order.

if you wanted the stuff that bad, you should have planned better and taken it with you.
4/29/09 12:32 PM
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voorhees
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Except for Gannon,who was basically just telling me to make sure I didnt get in trouble or fuck my life up over this,the rest of you all gave me some pussified advice on this(yeah I know I asked)

I called the police first and told them I was going,and went there w/my receipts,lease,my buddys pick up truck,and keys to the place when no one was home,and I got my couch,ottoman,and chair(I shoudve and couldve taken so much more,but I am not a bitter prick like some of you suggested)

And all she has done about it since is send me scathing e-mails and scream @me on my voicemail.

I cant understand why most of you told me to let it all go and let her "abscond into the night"w/EVERYTHING we accumulated together+my stuff as well.

But thats ok,and thanks for all of your input anyway.
4/29/09 2:30 PM
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goku
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"I called the police first and told them I was going"

lol...
4/29/09 3:33 PM
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voorhees
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Funny huh?
4/29/09 3:44 PM
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jbapk
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voorhees - Funny huh?


More like probably not true.
4/29/09 11:02 PM
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voorhees
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Yeah I figured thats what he meant but whatever.

I called the police because I wanted them to go w/me so she couldnt say later that I destroyed shit in the house or took things that were not mine.
4/29/09 11:14 PM
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goku
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i lold because i found it odd that you called them to evidence your potentially criminal act..what did you say and did they go with u?
4/30/09 12:14 AM
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jbapk
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voorhees - Yeah I figured thats what he meant but whatever.

I called the police because I wanted them to go w/me so she couldnt say later that I destroyed shit in the house or took things that were not mine.


Look, I've seen this situations personally in two different states, and heard about them in many more. Any time I've ever seen/heard about them, when somebody calls the police to collect their stuff in a domestic situation, they send a cop to watch the situation and make sure nothing happens. They also have the other party involved, because the cop has no idea what stuff is hers or yours.

Now maybe you happen to live in one of the handful of jurisdictions in the country that doesn't do that, but that seems far fetched. My guess is that you either didn't call the cops (and maybe didn't go at all), or if you did you left something major out of the story. Through I'm sure when you pop back up now your story will conveniently have the cop showing up.

And I'm not sure what you're gloating about, no one said that you couldn't get into the apartment. People just pointed out there may be consequences later.
4/30/09 1:10 AM
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GladiatorGannon
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voorhees - Except for Gannon,who was basically just telling me to make sure I didnt get in trouble or fuck my life up over this,the rest of you all gave me some pussified advice on this(yeah I know I asked)

I called the police first and told them I was going,and went there w/my receipts,lease,my buddys pick up truck,and keys to the place when no one was home,and I got my couch,ottoman,and chair(I shoudve and couldve taken so much more,but I am not a bitter prick like some of you suggested)

And all she has done about it since is send me scathing e-mails and scream @me on my voicemail.

I cant understand why most of you told me to let it all go and let her "abscond into the night"w/EVERYTHING we accumulated together+my stuff as well.

But thats ok,and thanks for all of your input anyway.


save the voice and emails, she is being counseled by her friends about her "deranged stalker" situation right now. they've seen the Movie of the Week, and they all know how important it is for you to go to jail.
4/30/09 1:03 PM
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voorhees
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goku - i lold because i found it odd that you called them to evidence your potentially criminal act..what did you say and did they go with u?


I only called them for the reasons I listed above.I only wanted what was mine and didnt want to be accused of doing something I didnt.Thats why I wanted them to come,to observe me.They said that if my name was on the lease that I had the right to enter the premesis and they basically didnt seem to want to be bothered as far as coming w/me goes.

And jpak,I dont know why you are giving me such a hard time about this(calling me a liar,etc)it happened the way I said it did.If you have something beneficial to say then say it,otherwise leave me the fuck alone.Hell,even goku has been trying to help in his own way.The only part I left out is that my friend who was helping me move the shit started taking EVERYTHING out of the apartment(because he hates my ex)and putting it in his truck and I had to waste time convincing him that wasnt right and we were not going to do that.

And I am not "gloating"about jackshit.I am actually embarrassed that it had to come to this and that I had to go this route.Because of one of my bad decisions in life I had to take a day off work,and so did my friend to do all of this,and I had to ask for advice on a MMA forum.

who cares if it didnt happen the same exact way you have seen it happen before,or if it doesnt sound believeable to you.
4/30/09 2:16 PM
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goku
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"I only called them for the reasons I listed above.I only wanted what was mine and didnt want to be accused of doing something I didnt.Thats why I wanted them to come,to observe me.They said that if my name was on the lease that I had the right to enter the premesis and they basically didnt seem to want to be bothered as far as coming w/me goes."

do you realize them going with you really has no bearing on your or her legal rights?
4/30/09 2:47 PM
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GladiatorGannon
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goku - "I only called them for the reasons I listed above.I only wanted what was mine and didnt want to be accused of doing something I didnt.Thats why I wanted them to come,to observe me.They said that if my name was on the lease that I had the right to enter the premesis and they basically didnt seem to want to be bothered as far as coming w/me goes."

do you realize them going with you really has no bearing on your or her legal rights?


yeah, but on the practical side, it makes a hell of a difference when she calls those SAME cops to report that a "deranged stalker" had broken into her home.


i hesitated to give advice about a state with different laws, but i can completely see the desk sergeant saying the same thing in my city. if he's on the lease, and it's his property, and there is no court order of any kind saying otherwise, there is no reason why he can't enter his own apartment and get his own property. "But he doesn't live there" - a person can have multiple properties, by ownership or lease, and he doesn't lose his right to any of them if he lays his head someplace else.

this story may not be over yet tho, so good luck.
4/30/09 2:47 PM
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voorhees
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Jesus goku,I simply wanted them to watch me when I was taking the shit out and be witnesses.

And I also wanted to see what they would say about the whole situation when i called and if they would say "sir dont do that" or something.

My god,you have told me the LEASE doesnt matter.

The receipts dont matter.

The key doesnt matter.

Now you are saying even the POLICE wouldnt have mattered.

Unreal.What in the blue hell SHOULD I have done?

Rolled over and not done shit?
4/30/09 3:00 PM
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goku
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voorhees - Jesus goku,I simply wanted them to watch me when I was taking the shit out and be witnesses.

And I also wanted to see what they would say about the whole situation when i called and if they would say "sir dont do that" or something.

My god,you have told me the LEASE doesnt matter.

The receipts dont matter.

The key doesnt matter.

Now you are saying even the POLICE wouldnt have mattered.

Unreal.What in the blue hell SHOULD I have done?

Rolled over and not done shit?


1. calm yourself. i am not you ex so no need to go psycho on me.

2. i didnt tell you that the lease doesnt matter, of course it matters. what i said was just because your name is on the lease doesnt mean you have the right to enter the property. do you have add? this is what i have been saying to you all along. the point is, AGAIN, is from a legal perspective, either you have the right to enter private property or you dont. If you assume you have that right, that probably also means you also have some obligation with respect to that right (ie paying rent). If you assume you don't have the right, you had no right to enter the property REGARDLESS of what some officer tells you. why is this concept so difficult for you to get through your thick skull.
4/30/09 3:13 PM
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voorhees
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OK,goku I dont get why you have to be condescending.

You DID advise me that the things I listed didnt matter to a certain ext.

I entered the property.I was told by every authority that mattered that I could and I did.

I AM trying to find out if I can be responsible for further rent obligations because of what I did.

So if you can tell me I wish you would.

Thick skull???I waited SIX MONTHS to do this.

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