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2/16/10 12:43 PM
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BobAsh
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^ good advice. Dry fire training is essential for proper squeeze.

Make damn sure your gun is unloaded though!

2/16/10 3:33 PM
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Willybone
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Edited: 02/16/10 3:35 PM
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*whew*

That's a pretty thorough program. Right now, I've only got a IWB holster and it's still pretty snug. I have been working on getting a smooth, consistent presentation from under my shirt. Already I've got an issue, though.

I'm finding my IWB holster and tiny G26 only allow me to get one finger on the grip. So, I put my ring finger where it belongs and then put my thumb on top of the rear sight to draw. Once I'm clear, my hand adjusts to a proper grip pretty easily (and I can keep well clear of trigger the whole time). This seems to work fine, but I'm worried I shouldn't be handling the rear sight so much. Any real problem here?

I tried one of those pinky extension, but it dramatically increases the print of the gun when I move and still don't think ring and pinger fingers can draw the gun without my thumb getting involved.

And I'll start adding a pull of trigger now, too.  
2/18/10 7:43 AM
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Skpotamus
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Hmmm, what type of holster are you using and where are you carrying it? It kind of sounds like the holster is a little too low in your pants, preventing your middle finger from getting a good grip on the gun.
Drawing with the gun in anything but a good firing grip won't work in any type of physical confrontation where you have to move, or are in physical contact with the BG (oh the things you learn in force on force drills)
You won't do any damage to the sight itself by doing that.

I like kydex for my holsters, they hold the gun more positively and let me get a better grip on my guns (most holsters) because they tend to have less material around the trigger guard area.

http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=89 is the holster I like to carry my glock 19 in, works great for appendix carry.

Back when I was carrying behind the hip (4-5 o'clock) I loved the CTAC http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=61

The archangel and Ehud are both great holsters for appendix carry as well (http://www.onesourcetactical.com/archangelappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband.aspx
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/ehudappendixcarryaiwbappendixinsidethewaistband.aspx)
All should give you good clearance to get your grip before you try to draw the gun.

If you're using a kydex holster with a tension screw adjustment, dial it down a bit, I would keep mine so they would barely hold the gun if I gently turned them upside down. If it's in my pants, it's only gonna fall out if I'm upside down, in which case I probably have other things to worry about :o)

If you're using a cloth holster, like an uncle mike's http://www.uncle-mikes.com/products/inside_the_pant_holsters.html I do a little surgery on it to move the clip down so more of the grip is above my belt line (this is for appendix) so I could get a full grip on the gun.


As always, YMMV.
2/18/10 10:19 AM
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Willybone
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Edited: 02/18/10 10:21 AM
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Skpotamus - Hmmm, what type of holster are you using and where are you carrying it? It kind of sounds like the holster is a little too low in your pants, preventing your middle finger from getting a good grip on the gun. 

I am definitely coming to that conclusion as well. It's a heavy leather Cobra Skin IWB holster. It conceals beautifully at 4:30, but drawing is a bit of a trick because it rides so low.
I went to a IDPA thing last night, and one of the guys was kind enough to spend some time with going over my draw. He also drew attention to my needing to change grips through the draw/fire/holster process. I'm going to do some shopping this weekend for some kydex holsters (IWB and othewise). The guys there also recommended the CompTac line as perfect for Glocks, both carrying and competing.

Next week, they're going to let me try a few rounds of IDPA. I am definitely looking forward to the learning process. Watching and working with them last night left me with a lot to think about.
2/23/10 9:33 AM
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Skpotamus
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Sweet, enjoy the IDPA, it's a lot of fun.

Let us know what you decide holster wise.
2/23/10 11:13 AM
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Willybone
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I went with a iTac Defense as a starter holster.


It's not IWB, and I think the "360 rotation" feature means I can't use it in official IDPA matches.
BUT, I like the active retention and the price was right ($25). I'd still like to get a quality kydex IWB down the line.

I also got a combo (single) mag and (small) flashlight holder. They did some flashlight rounds when I went, which looked like a blast.
3/4/10 8:38 PM
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BenMac
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Edited: 03/04/10 8:37 PM
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7/13/10 12:00 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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my threads.
7/13/10 4:20 PM
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Willybone
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Yeah, Skopatamus's advice was very valuable.

7/15/10 3:09 AM
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cormano_wild
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Edited: 07/15/10 3:09 AM
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7/15/10 3:09 AM
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cormano_wild
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Edited: 07/15/10 3:10 AM
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7/15/10 3:29 AM
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Skpotamus
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:o)
8/30/10 12:30 PM
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TheCorrect
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Good info in this thread. I just ordered a Gen 4 Glock 19. Should be picking it up this week.

The 19 just feels natural in my hand. I love everything about it. The Gen 4 is perfect for me too because I'm a southpaw & the mag release is reverseable.
9/1/10 9:31 AM
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Dark Knight
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TheCorrect - Good info in this thread. I just ordered a Gen 4 Glock 19. Should be picking it up this week.

The 19 just feels natural in my hand. I love everything about it. The Gen 4 is perfect for me too because I'm a southpaw & the mag release is reverseable.



ambidextrous magazine release
9/1/10 9:48 AM
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TheCorrect
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Dark Knight - 
TheCorrect - Good info in this thread. I just ordered a Gen 4 Glock 19. Should be picking it up this week.

The 19 just feels natural in my hand. I love everything about it. The Gen 4 is perfect for me too because I'm a southpaw & the mag release is reverseable.



ambidextrous magazine release


Nope. It's reverseable. You have to physically change it from right handed only to left handed only.

An ambidextrous magazine release means there is always a button on both sides at the same time.
9/17/10 7:07 AM
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Owen Gregg
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10/18/10 1:20 AM
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TheCorrect
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Forgot how much good info was in this thread. Bump.
3/26/11 10:15 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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 ttt

3/27/11 1:11 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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I finally actually read this thread. There's very little actual info here.

The dry fire program is ok. It's a little "one size fits all," but what's really wrong with it is that it doesn't address any of the actual fundamentals. I mean, let's say you do 200 dry fire draws a night - who is to say you did the draws correctly, or that your trigger technique was any good?

Anyway, the key to buying a Glock is knowing that you're buying a base platform. In a way, it's a lot like buying a stock Miata. If you just buy one and do nothing to it you end up with a pretty gay ride. If you buy one and optimize it for speed, you end up with one of the premier racers in the world. With Glock, you have to recognize that there is a lot of potential there, but that in it's stock form it's really pretty much sub-par.
3/27/11 3:35 AM
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Skpotamus
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By all means, post your dry fire routine. The routine I listed was a general beginners routine. From my experience, that will get you to be a better and faster shot than most of the people I've come across out there.

For dry fire, it's a pretty simple pass/fail test. The major concern is your sights moving during the press. If they ain't moving, you're gonna hit what you were aiming at.

As for drawstroke, that depends a lot on the person, holster and method of carry. My drawstroke from my archangel appendix carry holster with a T shirt over it will be different than someone using a strong side open holster.

Glock sub par? Well, it really is the indian, not the arrow, but glocks seem to be doing "alright" in major competitions. A stock glock has won the IDPA nationals in the stock service pistol division 9 years in a row now.

Sevigny's gun specs are here: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/dave-sevigny-interview-faq/ Nothing fancy, pretty much stock glocks with the exception of the sights on his stock guns.
3/27/11 10:35 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Skpotamus - By all means, post your dry fire routine. The routine I listed was a general beginners routine. From my experience, that will get you to be a better and faster shot than most of the people I've come across out there.

For dry fire, it's a pretty simple pass/fail test. The major concern is your sights moving during the press. If they ain't moving, you're gonna hit what you were aiming at.

As for drawstroke, that depends a lot on the person, holster and method of carry. My drawstroke from my archangel appendix carry holster with a T shirt over it will be different than someone using a strong side open holster.

Glock sub par? Well, it really is the indian, not the arrow, but glocks seem to be doing "alright" in major competitions. A stock glock has won the IDPA nationals in the stock service pistol division 9 years in a row now.

Sevigny's gun specs are here: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/dave-sevigny-interview-faq/ Nothing fancy, pretty much stock glocks with the exception of the sights on his stock guns.


No one shoots a stock Glock in competition. In fact, shot up at an IDPA or USPSA event and you can pick out the first-timers because their Glocks still have the stock plastic sights.

Even Sevigny's Production G34 (the one with the least mods) has new sights, a steel guide rod, new trigger spring, new recoil spring, new firing pin spring, new firing pin safety spring, and probably a .25 trigger job. That's not exactly stock.
3/28/11 5:49 AM
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Skpotamus
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If you can't shoot well enough to place without mods to the gun, then you need more practice, not parts. At the absolute top levels, the mods (usually springs) help tune the gun to their loads to let it run better and can shave that 0.05 seconds off their time. For example, someone running a .45automatic in stock service pistol shooting regular 230 grain loads can download their rounds from a normal 850fps to 544 fps. Trying to run those loads with a regular spring setup in a gun will result in an extremely slow slide and probably some failures to eject. Stick with factory ammo, or loads set to factory specs (mine mirror the +P golddots I carry in my guns, so a little bit hot) and you can leave the springs alone.

What you decide to do to your gun all depends on what your goal with the shooting comp is. I and most of the guys I shoot with shoot their carry guns in carry gun setups as a fun way to practice (including some officers who shoot with duty gun, duty belt etc), a few of them are pretty high level shooters (a couple expert and two masters that shoot stock, department issued glock22's). Some of the guys do modify their guns pretty heavily, but you can be competitive with a stock gun in the stock divisions of USPSA and IDPA, hence them being there.



What dry fire routine would you recommend since you didn't like mine?
3/28/11 8:39 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Steve Anderson's "Refinement and Repetition" is pretty much considered the gold standard of dry fire routines. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thank you for the description of how different loads require different springs. Stock G17's ship with a 17 lb recoil spring, which I think is too heavy for even factory 9mm. Forget about competition-specific reloads designed to just make power factor. I shoot factory ammo out of a G34, and I prefer a 13 lb recoil spring.

But that's only one spring. The rest all affect trigger pull, which is arguably much more important.

Anyway, the point is that out of the box, Glocks aren't race-ready. They need work, but after that they're great. Any discussion of a Glock purchase should, IMO, contain the mods necessary to make the gun perform to its highest level (obviously beginning with replacing the stock plastic sights).

Anyway, I stand by my statement that you can't be competitive in USPSA Production division or IDPA SSP division without at least replacing the sights, and once you do that the gun is no longer "stock."
3/28/11 11:03 AM
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Dark Knight
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Rhymenoceros - Steve Anderson's "Refinement and Repetition" is pretty much considered the gold standard of dry fire routines. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thank you for the description of how different loads require different springs. Stock G17's ship with a 17 lb recoil spring, which I think is too heavy for even factory 9mm. Forget about competition-specific reloads designed to just make power factor. I shoot factory ammo out of a G34, and I prefer a 13 lb recoil spring.

But that's only one spring. The rest all affect trigger pull, which is arguably much more important.

Anyway, the point is that out of the box, Glocks aren't race-ready. They need work, but after that they're great. Any discussion of a Glock purchase should, IMO, contain the mods necessary to make the gun perform to its highest level (obviously beginning with replacing the stock plastic sights).

Anyway, I stand by my statement that you can't be competitive in USPSA Production division or IDPA SSP division without at least replacing the sights, and once you do that the gun is no longer "stock."



I was at the range Saturday and a guy was there with his sister that turned 21. he had a glock in 9mm and she was doing very good for never shooting before. I have a Ruger SR9 that was given to me by my team before I went on to Iraq. (That makes it a GREAT gun)

When she shot the Ruger she shot horrible. He then told me had had a trigger job done on the Glock and competed with it.
3/28/11 11:13 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Dark Knight - 
Rhymenoceros - Steve Anderson's "Refinement and Repetition" is pretty much considered the gold standard of dry fire routines. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Thank you for the description of how different loads require different springs. Stock G17's ship with a 17 lb recoil spring, which I think is too heavy for even factory 9mm. Forget about competition-specific reloads designed to just make power factor. I shoot factory ammo out of a G34, and I prefer a 13 lb recoil spring.

But that's only one spring. The rest all affect trigger pull, which is arguably much more important.

Anyway, the point is that out of the box, Glocks aren't race-ready. They need work, but after that they're great. Any discussion of a Glock purchase should, IMO, contain the mods necessary to make the gun perform to its highest level (obviously beginning with replacing the stock plastic sights).

Anyway, I stand by my statement that you can't be competitive in USPSA Production division or IDPA SSP division without at least replacing the sights, and once you do that the gun is no longer "stock."



I was at the range Saturday and a guy was there with his sister that turned 21. he had a glock in 9mm and she was doing very good for never shooting before. I have a Ruger SR9 that was given to me by my team before I went on to Iraq. (That makes it a GREAT gun)

When she shot the Ruger she shot horrible. He then told me had had a trigger job done on the Glock and competed with it.


Yeah, virtually any Production gun will need a trigger job in order to be competitive. I walked around SHOT show for two days just feeling all the triggers, and man was I horrified. Glocks - for as much as they are maligned for having bad triggers out of the box - shit all over most of the other non-1911 options out there when it comes to trigger pull.

The way I set my Glock triggers up is closer to stock than to the 3.5lb trigger that comes standard on the G34/G35, but it still takes a lot of work to get it there.

The SR9 can be really good, but they seem inconsistent to me. The times I've dry fired a few of them, some have been great, and others have been gritty and heavy. Maybe it's just a break-in thing? I have no idea.

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