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PhilosophyGround >> I'm not okay with death and dying


4/29/09 12:27 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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joh02639@umn.edu (oops)
4/29/09 12:39 AM
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springfield
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Edited: 04/29/09 12:40 AM
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meow mix -
Your concern for your husband and family members is legitimate.  1998 Statistics on motorcycle accidents:

Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.

I would encourage them to use a car instead.

 
4/29/09 1:08 AM
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El Maquina
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HELWIG -  What if death is simply an eternal sensation of you being disembodied but in pure mental agony, screaming silently forever?


Dammit Helwig, it's stuff like that that keeps me up at night.
4/29/09 1:12 AM
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pats0
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Sir Anodos - If you read a lot of near death experiences brain activity as the only explanation is doubtful. Now if consciousness somehow lies beyond the sum of the human body (lets say at a sub-atomic level) then the experience of near death could have what people call a "natural" explanation, but that would still point to experiences that go beyond the body.


Near death experiences being only due to brain activity aren't doubtful at all. Your consciousness and personality are directly tied to your brain. That is why when people have certain brain injuries their personalities can change.

If you believe in a soul or something that survives after death then what would survive when someone with personality change, due to a brain injury, dies? Is it their old personality (no reason to believe this) or their new one? If you think it's the new one and the new personality was due to brain injury then a lack of a brain (ie. death) is more likely to result in no personality (ie. nothingness) rather can the new personality surviving after the death of the brain.

If you think that humans go somewhere after death then you better have an explanation as to where other organisms go too, since we all evolved together and it just happens that our brain are just more complex than those of other animals (ie. apes, dogs, etc). The human brain, consciousness, and personality are not different from animals in terms of type, but in terms of degree (ie. we are not special or different, just more complex).

Death is the scariest thing I can think of.
4/29/09 7:28 AM
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killacox
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pats0 if people want to use unicorns and gumdrop fairies to make themselves feel better about the big questions let them!
4/29/09 8:04 AM
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spg
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Here's how it goes:  nobody has ANY idea what happens when you die.  No clue.  It's probably just "the end", but there's no way to know for sure (other than offing yourself).  Living your life under the assumption that there's something better than this coming makes absolutely no sense at all.  The good news is that life on Earth is pretty good, so enjoy that. 
4/29/09 8:07 AM
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el owl
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I don't like it either....Kirik can we get a ban on death and dying plz? Thanks in advance..
4/29/09 8:08 AM
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crazydave
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meow mix - What happens?  Where do you go?  What do you feel?  If you believe in nothing, does nothing happen?  What about those stories of people seeing the light and other crazy stuff?  If this body is just a vehicle for your soul, what happens to your soul until you come back?  Are you afraid right before you die?  Do you know you're dying? 

I think I might end up reading something a bit heavier than I planned.



Its kind of like a crazy Japanese game show
4/29/09 8:08 AM
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killacox
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Edited: 04/29/09 8:08 AM
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spg has just waterboarded and stacked nude the correct
4/29/09 8:10 AM
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WizzleTeatsv2
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meow mix - 
WizzleTeatsv2 - I'm not into coping. Give me the full, ugly, real and raw experience of grief over that bullshit any day.

So instead of coping, you choose to go the route of acceptance.  That makes sense.  Maybe experiencing it first hand is the best way to understand and to deal with it?  And I'm sure that if life is painful, death is welcomed with open arms.  How do you gain acceptance to something that is inevitable?  Something that is intangible?  Or is it tangible?  It's intangible to those watching it happen but tangible to those experiencing it?



Life is painful. Life is also filled with great things like friendship, love (familial and otherwise), joy, and so on.

You don't get a choice about death--yours or others. Everything and everyone you love is transient. Eventually, we're done. All of us. Parents,spouses, friends, children, etc. And that will be painful.

That's the cost of being human, of having a conscious mind. The only logical choice is to work towards acceptance of that. Otherwise you'll just be living your life out of fear, on one level or another.
4/29/09 8:31 AM
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WizzleTeatsv2
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 Interesting article on fathers who have lost a child.   Most impressive to me is the fact that they are all still married. Often when a child dies the marriage falls apart.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/29/bereaved_fathers_find_healing_in_friendship/?page=1
 

4/29/09 8:34 AM
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WizzleTeatsv2
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springfield - meow mix -
Your concern for your husband and family members is legitimate.  1998 Statistics on motorcycle accidents:

Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.

I would encourage them to use a car instead.

 



That would be great if they wanted to live thier lives in fear.

I lost a good friend last year in a bike accident, and another friend's dad just passed in the same way.

I'm getting my motorcycle license soon, and buying a bike from a buddy of mine. Why? Because fuck being afraid. I want to do what makes me happy in life. If I die, I die. Everyone does, sooner or later. Might as well enjoy what you've got while you've got it.
4/29/09 9:36 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Life is dangerous.

Motorcycles are mandatory.
4/29/09 9:39 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Proof:

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Steve McQueen in The Great Escape

Che Gueverra

Leather
4/29/09 9:52 AM
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Russfromlowell
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Thanatophobia: The Fear of Dying

Thanatophobia - the fear of death or dying is a phobia that is rarely talked about. Most people think they are alone in their suffering and don't usually share their fears about the Grim Reaper. In reality, Death Anxiety affects most people at some time or another in their lives, but the degree of anxiety would largely depend on the individual. Some of us live in complete denial, preferring to think that we have an endless supply of tomorrows, while others are consumed with daily thoughts about their own mortality.

None of us know for sure what will happen to us after we die, but when the fear of dying consumes your thoughts to the point that it interferes with your everyday life you may be suffering with Thanatophobia. The realization of one's own mortality is a natural concern for most humans but obsessive fear and anxiety can take the joy out of living and even lead to full-blown panic attacks.

So what is it about this universal phenomenon that fills us with such dread? Most people would agree the most obvious answer is the "fear of the unknown." Since we have never actually experienced death, how can we be sure what will be waiting for us on the other side? What if our concept of the afterlife is completely false and there is absolutely nothing - the ultimate disappointment? The loss of Self and ceasing to exist can be a terrifying prospect.

If this is all there is to our existence, then our fear would seem to be justified. For some the "fear of dying alone" causes extreme anxiety. Ultimately you must pass through death alone but the passing may be made easier when surrounded by loved ones and familiar faces. Others fear leaving their loved ones behind to cope without them. They worry about how they will manage emotionally and financially as well as living out their lives without them.

Whatever the reasons, death is unavoidable and comes to us all. Whether you are obsessed with the issue or choose to completely ignore it, a balance must be sought if we are to live our lives fully and completely
4/29/09 9:55 AM
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Russfromlowell
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"It's like a finger pointing at the moon...
Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of the heavenly glory! "
4/29/09 10:10 AM
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OceanMinded
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Soup and Beer - 
OceanMinded - 


I am not the same person I was before that happened either.

 

 Care to elaborate?

 Sorry. Haven't been on in a while.

If a person could be "haunted," and I don't mean in the conventional spiritual sense, then that's me. It is very hard to articulate what I mean, but I'll try.

I was given an injection intraveniously that was prepared as an intramuscular shot. Meaning it had a 2% Lidocane solution that was meant to ease the shot when given in the muscle. As it was given in the vein, it went straight to my heart, liteally within 2 - 3 seconds of having been administered.

It effectively shut my heart down for 30 - 60 seconds. My wife told me they could not get anything onthe EKG when they hooked it up for up to a minute. I was told the fact I survived was attributed to my overall health and 25+ years in athletics. I have also been told by a number of people in the medical field that I should be dead. (still)

Now the difficult part. I am more emotional now, more apt to depression, and I do what I can really only call "zone," and not realize I am doing it. I am certainly different, but with no medical or psychological background, it is difficult for me to explain how. My memory has been affected. Things bother me that never did in 34 years previous to my "death." I no longer have the stomach to see things die, even in fictional settings. I am a horror buff, have been since the original Halloween came out, but I can't tolerate as much now. Seeing animals die affects me now where before it did not.

Perhaps it's age. Perhaps not........ (oh, and FRAT)
4/29/09 10:48 AM
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sparkyman
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 I would be much better about dying if I didn't have kids. I really enjoy life now and I accept the fact that I will die, I just need to know that my family will be fine. I've done the best that I can by providing them with fond memories, good parenting (and yes) life insurance.

I want my daughters to hold me as an example of what husbands should be and want my wife to not have to worry about money or moving on.

If I'm on my death bed, I will go much more peacefully with acceptance if I know that my family will go on to have the best lives that I could have provided.

Honestly.
4/29/09 10:56 AM
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Clichy
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Meow Mix-

Are you happy?
4/29/09 11:25 AM
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meow mix
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 2JupitersTooMany, be looking for an email. 

Riding a motorcycle is something that makes these people that I love happy.  Why would I take away or be down on something that makes them happy when that is all I want for them?  This is my working toward acceptance of death.  Talking with people is also helping with that.  Now I feel that the sooner or at least steadier that I can work towards this acceptance, the better mother, wife, friend, daughter, sister, and person in general I will be.  I've never had an easy time with death.  Makes me think that maybe in a past life I experienced a really terrible one?  I have a hard time watching animals die, I couldn't go up to the casket at my grandfather's or my grandmother's wakes or funerals.  I want to get over that, is it fear? 

BTW, last night and this morning have been great.  I feel that I've put myself fully into what's going on around me, and that is having my husband be off of work and home with us, and spending time with my sons.  We had a friend and his kids over to go in the pool and eat dinner, and it was fun.  These are things that I love to do.  I also love to show my kids different things in life.  I want them to experience all the really neat things I was able to experience.  I know that my kids, my husband, my good friends, my family are all important and spending time with them is important.  I'm working on not caring at what people think, which I do better with at certain times than others.  I don't know. 

4/29/09 11:26 AM
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meow mix
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I am happy.  Very happy, as a matter of fact.  Why?
4/29/09 11:35 AM
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springfield
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WizzleTeatsv2 - 
springfield - ....I would encourage them to use a car instead.
That would be great if they wanted to live thier lives in fear......

I disagree that this is living in fear, it's a matter of priorities and what is important to you.  If meow mix's husband loves her and his kids and recognizes that driving a motorcycle is an unnecessary risk (based on probabilities), then he should reconsider doing it if they are a high priority. On the other hand, if someone doesn't have the same responsibilities and concerns then the risk may well be worth it.
4/29/09 12:26 PM
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killacox
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... whats life without risks?
4/29/09 12:45 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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springfield - If meow mix's husband loves her and his kids and recognizes that driving a motorcycle is an unnecessary risk (based on probabilities), then he should reconsider doing it if they are a high priority.


I just threw up in my mouth
4/29/09 12:51 PM
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HELWIG
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 The thing that makes NDE's hard to dismiss as the firings of a dying brain is when patients are able to recount things going on after they were clinically dead or seeing the situation from a 3rd person view and recounting details they couldnt have observed even if awake.

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