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Kickboxing UnderGround >> Pradel Serey?


5/5/09 7:57 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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Edited: 05/06/09 4:34 AM
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I was watching the Travel chanel's show "Dhani tackles the Globe" which features NFL Linebacker Dhani Jones traveling to varios countries and participating in their national sports.  ex. He went to Thailand and did Muay Thai, Russia - Sambo, etc.

This week he went to Cambodia and did pradel serey.  Anyone have an expereince with this form of kickboxing?  What is the modern relationship between Muay Thai, Pradel Serey, Burmese Boxing etc? as a layman I would think these other arts would tend to migrate towards competing in muay thai as it seems they could profit more in that sport. Is this even considered?
 
5/6/09 8:18 AM
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Ryukyu Damashi
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Pisands fighter, Ben Case, fought and beat a pretty famous Pradel Serey fighter named Eh Phutong last summer in Cambodia.
5/6/09 12:41 PM
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Phil Dunlap
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Eh Phutong is very good have seen tape of several of his fights. ( Ben Case is a great fighter seen first hand coaching against him)
5/6/09 12:45 PM
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Vincent Giordano
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Edited: 05/06/09 12:48 PM
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 Eh was once the top fighter in his weight class in Cambodia. He is a nice guy and I trained with him once or twice.  Thats a nice win for Ben, Eh's brother is also a fighter whos pretty good.

Pradal Serei's modern relationship to Muay Thai is actually close(althought the cambodians and thais probably wouldnt agree on that).  They dont have the purses, camps and infrastructure and support like thailand has, nobody in the region does. But they are solid fighters and they have televised fights that are well attended two days a week.   Burmese Boxing remains a bare knuckle art and apart from thailand, laos and cambodia. Pradal was based on a bare knuckle platform then they shifted to gloves and westernized rules way after the thais progressed to modern ring muay thai.  The country was decimated and destroyed by the khmer rogue, so everything needed to be rebuilt from virtually nothing, fighters, trainers, lawyers, teachers, doctors, wealthy people,  were all the first single minded targets of the khmer rouge to execute immediately upon their take over, so they lost a good part of their past tradition but they have done a great job slowly rebuilding everything from virtually nothing. They have a long way to go to get the money, camps and training equipment for their fighters but its improving.

The cambodians do compete in muay thai events here and there like in the kings birthday celebrations.  And we had a major cambodia vs burma bare knuckle card once but the burmese government didnt want to go through with it, the showdown was going to be Eh vs Lone Chaw which would have been outstanding   Alot of foreigners fight in cambodia, some win and some lose. Having fights televised really helps alot. I get the Pradal Serei fights every week to watch in addition to the thai boxing in bangkok, so I keep up on everything. 

There is an ongoing debate between thais vs cambodians about who actually "invented" /"created" the ring art but its more politics and a way to build self esteem and worth for the cambodians than an actual well researched and thought out campaign.


 
5/6/09 1:27 PM
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Ryukyu Damashi
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Off topic...I think Pisand has one of the top camps in the US. Eastern US for sure. His other fighter, Mark Deluca recently fought and won at Lumpinee.
5/6/09 3:03 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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 Great post Vincent !   thank you!

Ryukyu, - I've trained with Pisand's team, so I know first hand how talented they are! and he is indeed an excellent  coach.
5/6/09 4:10 PM
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JRBjoker
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I actual have. Its a bit more intense than Muay Thai, almost like Muay boran. I Guess you could say that Muay thai is more profitable due to its world wide recognition; Pradal Serey is a bit more underground, it still has its famous fighters. But you will see most of it in unknown areas with more aggression and brutality (in the style).
5/6/09 4:10 PM
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JRBjoker
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I actual have. Its a bit more intense than Muay Thai, almost like Muay boran. I Guess you could say that Muay thai is more profitable due to its world wide recognition; Pradal Serey is a bit more underground, it still has its famous fighters. But you will see most of it in unknown areas with more aggression and brutality (in the style).
5/7/09 2:13 PM
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Vincent Giordano
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 Does anyone have the footage of bens fight with eh? I would love to see that.
5/11/09 2:10 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnjexKH_r4Y

 
5/11/09 4:15 PM
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Vincent Giordano
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 Bull_in_chinashop:
Thanks for posting the link!

V
5/13/09 6:23 AM
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Normal MT
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 TTT for Baki.
5/16/09 5:16 PM
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blackmarknyc
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Vincent, I am a little familiar with Burmese Boxing and knew nothing about Cambodian. do Laos and Viet Nam also have their own fighting arts and are most SE Asian countries separated historically in their fighting styles? I am surprised that so far as I have seen, each country's style seems to be so different.
5/16/09 5:27 PM
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Ryukyu Damashi
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Good questions. Did the Champa have a form of Indo-Chinese boxing?
5/16/09 8:17 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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blackmarknyc - I am surprised that so far as I have seen, each country's style seems to be so different.
really? I saw the pradel serey and thought it looked like a rough, unrefined version of muay thai.  I didn't see anything in particula that set it apart including watching Ben's fight w/ Eh.
 
5/16/09 8:37 PM
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Vincent Giordano
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Edited: 05/16/09 8:42 PM
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 It has alot to do with each country and what happened to them politically.  Pol Pot destroyed everything within Cambodia, so everything needed to be rebuilt including any type of indigenous sports and dance. My belief is that when they came to reconstitute the sport they had to look to thailand to see where it went and then tried to bring it back to that level.  Laos likewise had political  turmoil and very little support for the ring art, which again developed from the bare knuckle forerunner,  though they maintain an arena for fights and have active fighters and fights. Thus Cambodia and laos current ring arts look similar now to thailands but nobody has the support and infrastructure that Thailand has for it.  Vietnam had the earlier form of bare knuckle that morphed into a modern ring art but again poltitical turmoil and a lack of interest led to its sort of downfall.  There are still competitors and practitioners there but they mostly work in western boxing and various other forms of martial arts which are heavily controlled by the government and military. They do have classes though in the ring art and it did bear the modern look of the ring arts of the other neighboring countries. Laos and cambodia still have the older bare knuckle forms, weapons, and other arts still being taught in small pockets and when you go back you can see the real distinctions between thailand, burma, laos, vietnam and cambodia in those older arts as time progressed they seem to let go of those arts though now a boom of revitalization and mostly commerce and exploitation have brought them back or let them breath so to speak a little longer. Vietnam has a wealth of martial arts actually, I couldnt turn a corner and not find a class.  They seem to really love them but the indigenous ones seem harder to find though still practiced. Burma remains bare knuckle but some recent tournaments held by the military tried in the early round fights to work in some amateur bouts and gloved bouts but that met with alot of empty seats in the house.

Cambodia and the fighters have come a long and continue to progress fairly well. They are getting alot more media attention and camps are actually springing up though really basic and raw. The fact that they continue to have televised fights and television support is really helpful to their growth.  They have the fighters but they need to the money to support them and their growth.

If you need more info, you can email me for some back vanishing flame reports which cover alot of this info and my travels through the regions.

  
5/16/09 10:04 PM
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Baki
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TTT so cool....

I had put up another post, and really appreciate all the info on this post.

Thank you

Bakitron
5/17/09 7:33 AM
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sta94
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 TTT for cool info, esp. Vincent.  Thanks for posting the video BiC, gotta watch it soon.

VG, haven't received a Vanishing Flame report in a while, still looking forward to your planned books and videos. 
5/18/09 1:55 PM
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blackmarknyc
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Bull_in_chinashop - 
blackmarknyc - I am surprised that so far as I have seen, each country's style seems to be so different.
really? I saw the pradel serey and thought it looked like a rough, unrefined version of muay thai.  I didn't see anything in particula that set it apart including watching Ben's fight w/ Eh.
 


I wouldn't be surprised that it didn't look different. but like I said, I haven't seen this particular style before(that I know of). but I have seen quite a bit of Burmese and it is different from modern Muay Thai. even if only from the stance(strong hand/leg forward). I think it's interesting how they evolved .

I would be very interested in the Vanishing Flame reports Vincent. I'm not too good at mma.tv mail but I'll give it a shot. my PM is marknegron@msn.com in case it doesn't work.
5/18/09 2:33 PM
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Vincent Giordano
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 Burmese boxing maintains a bare knuckle structure and even if it has changed alot in the last couple of decades, it needed some revitalization after the British left the country.  The recent big tournaments though are run along a more modern line so it has changed over time within itself but maintains the older way of bare knuckle with no judges and older rules whereas Thailand, Burma and Laos fight the more modern way with gloves, judges, etc, so you can see very clear distinction in training and fighting between the burmese styles and the thai, cambodia and lao styles. Thats easy and clearest to see. But to see how burmese changed and evolved within itself is also of enormous interest and a big topic.

Cambodia, Thailand and Laos (and even the vietnamese ring fighters) look close these days and their training methods are more similar than distinctly apart.  They were once in the past decades more different and distinct but the distinction seems to be wearing down to a more common approach.  I think it has to do with the model of success Thailand has demonstrated with the modern westernized template that progressed from the bare knuckle era. Cambodia and laos stayed with the bare knuckle era in their countries way after Thailand transitioned to the modern rules/gloved era.   How they evolved to where they are now is a totally different story and you can catch the detailed progressions and evolutions really through that process(and that really is the main body of my studies and training).

Its more about individual fighters in the modern era in thailand, cambodia and laos that probably brings the most distinction.  (For example: they say cambodians like to use more elbows and it maybe true but against a thai fighter its all negated and nullified and it might seem the thais are using less but its not so if you really study the styles. There have also been M-180 bare knuckle shows with cambodian, thailand, and laos fighters in them if you want to check something like that out and of course you have the yearly burma vs thailand and modern ring muay thai with multiple nations shows like the kings birthday programs)If you know alot about each country, been training in each and watch a lot of fights you can talk about alot of differences in approaches in fighting and training and there is alot of things, but it would be hard to go into detailed explanations on it with people who don't cross train or go to the fights in a steady consistent way in each country.  My response here is mostly in overview.

Mark: check your email i sent you some past reports.
5/18/09 9:50 PM
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blackmarknyc
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very good thread. thank you all.
5/22/09 1:36 PM
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Stickgrappler
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ttt
7/8/10 9:59 AM
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Rolly
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ttt
7/31/10 7:30 PM
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Rolly
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There's a school opening in Lowell, Ma at the end of August. They are going to have instructors from Cambodia teaching Pradel Serey and Kbach Kun Boran Khmer. Dick Ecklund will be teaching the boxing program.

http://www.cambodianboxing.com/
8/29/10 3:40 AM
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RocknRolla
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i've known Lao guys that do muay thai and muay lao. i've asked them whats the difference. they tell me..nothing really...but just the name.

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