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Australasia UnderGround >> BJJ Tournaments - are they worth it?


5/18/09 1:35 AM
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GeezerDownUnder
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With the ever increasing price of the tournament entry fee, one has to ask if it is worth all the trouble?

I was at the Victorian championships the other week, and it had it's usual debacles ... no real schedule, poor refeering etc ...

And from what I've just read about the NSW championships, it seems the same.

The price is going up every year, but now they're not giving t-shirts, there are few if any sponsors giving prizes and the organisational efforts are getting worse (with the exception of online entries which is a +).

Add to the AFBJJ now requesting that people take a day off work to compete on a friday, and the rediculous asking of charging spectators to watch (is this an amateur event or professional?) one has to ask "is it worth standing around day for a cheap plastic medal?"

Also (I may as well finish my rant) where does the money go? (The AFBJJ doesn't even pay their refs, and have only one "president" so this is probably an easy answer).
5/18/09 8:47 AM
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walbjj
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the nsw comps r now $55, they were $50 in the past.
i believe they had issues with the tshirt printer the past competitions, hopefully they rectify it and get a new supplier.
as far as a spectator fee goes, i think $5 is acceptable. $10 is its the panpacs.
but i see where u r coming from, im not a competitor myself, ive done a nsw comp in the past and i did the mundials the last year it was in brazil. as u get up in the ranks, its also not really worth it to enter and only get 1 or 2 matches.
i leave all my competing during training
5/18/09 7:32 PM
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Phill2T
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Totally agree with you Geezer. Ive often questioned where the entry fee goes.

Does anyone have an idea as to how much it costs to rent the MSAC venue in melb?
5/18/09 10:03 PM
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blakGSR
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Edited: 05/18/09 10:59 PM
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Last weekend was my final appearance at a comp.The depth of ability at our local academy and our affiliate academy's gives me all the challenges I need for now.
5/19/09 4:00 AM
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Elvis
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Just to offer another perspective... I agree with alot of what is being said. That is why Events BJJ looks to rectify alot of the problems seen at BJJ comps. Our goal is to make a competition for competitors. We want our competitors to walk away happy. We want the competitors to look forward to competiting, not dread a long day of uncertainty.

Some of the issues your brought up and how we rectified the situation at our comp...

1. We were the first BJJ comp with online entries in Australia. We were the first comp with only online entries for competitors. All entries online, that way no mistakes with transferring details to draws. Confirmation email is sent and it is your responsibility to ensure that the details are correct before comp day. Any errors just notify us via email and we will rectify them.

2. Online Draws and Schedule available the night before. Our divisions do not start prior to the advertised starting times and rarely later than 30 mins after. Last comp we were ahead of schedule 15mins and had a break while we ensured all competitors were ready to start. Not only that the online schedule also tells you what mat your division will be on so you know when and where your divison will be.

3. Professional sceduling of the events. We have a formulae that fairly accurately determines division starting and running times etc. Last comp ran like a dream. Most divisions started on time and the remaining started with 20mins of their allocated start time. We had over 200 competitors on the day. We were finised by 3pm and all presentations completed, mats packed up by 4pm.

4. All competitors received an Events BJJ cap. We decided to do something different for our first comp of the year instead of tshirts. Not saying we won't do tshirts for future comps but for the first one we went for a different option. We try and provide all our competitors with something other than a great day of competition.

5. ALL Divisions received prizes. Kids divisions, Adults divisions, white, blue, purple and brown. Not a single division missed out. We had very generous sponsors who provided not only lots of prizes, but quality prizes. Sinister Fightwear, Xplosiv Fightwear and USANA Health Sciences. Support the sponsors who support the sport.

6. We were also not happy with the quality of medals/trophies and sourced our own manufacturer overseas. I believe we have the best medals in Australia. Our medals are very similar in quality to the ones seen at the Mundials.

7. Results online within a week of the event. After our last event we had the results up within several days. Not only place results, but complete draws so you could go and see who fought who on the way to victory.

8. Spectator fees are just part of any professional sport. Complaining about them is silly. $5 really isn't too much to ask. At our comp we had $2 spectator fee or a $5 family fee. There are alot of costs that go into running an event. People forget about things like venue hire, equipment hire, mat transport, Insurance, first aid and more.

9. Most importantly we are happy to receive any critisism or advice. We are always looking to improve our events and the competitors experience. You can email any suggestions to contact@eventsbjj.com

10. We are looking a more new initiatives for our next comp to improve things. Don't miss out.

Don't give up on competing. Give Events BJJ a go. Check out our website www.eventsbjj.com

Regards,
Elvis Sinosic
Events BJJ
www.EventsBJJ.com
 

5/19/09 5:18 AM
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BenBJJ
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Aww gaad! Its now got to a competition between competitions?!

I agree with what is said at the beginning. IM not ever going to another Pan Pacs. Im pretty much done with competing. My competitive streak is sated at trainin or when I go train OS. I want to compete in Brasil or the states, but here, I dont get much from it. I would rather go to the pub / beach or hang with friends.

That being said I do like to coach my friends on my team.
5/19/09 9:17 PM
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Elvis
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LOL. Yeah a competition between competitions. Thing is, that is a good thing. It forces everyone to improve the standard. When the standard improves, everyone benefits. More people compete, competitors are happier and more competitors means competitions are better off.

The key is to make it into a great day of competition. The NSW Fed have always done well but there were always things that could be done to be improved. We decided to do our own invent fixing up what we thought were the problems. In turn the NSW Fed improved their event forcing us to improve.

Everyone benefits from more competitions. The competitors and the promoters. We're not trying to put anyone out of business but to improve the sport. If we become more succesful we know that it will also help the NSW Fed as well and vice versa.

My post above was to show that there is hope for the competitors. Don't give up on competing. If you want to compete and do well overseas you really do need to compete here. The more you compete the better you will get.

BenBJJ a question for you. When you say you don't much from competing here what do you mean? Is it too easy? Not enough matches? Do you not enjoy it? Is it too hard? What can be done to improve it for you? What needs to be done for you to get something from it?

Elvis

5/19/09 10:58 PM
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GeezerDownUnder
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Those are certainly some good points Elvis! When is your next event? might try and make the trip up.

And as for BenBJJ, he trains at a club with multiple world champions (just see their website), so I guess that is all he needs to know.
5/20/09 1:51 AM
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BenBJJ
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Elvis - 

LOL. Yeah a competition between competitions. Thing is, that is a good thing. It forces everyone to improve the standard. When the standard improves, everyone benefits. More people compete, competitors are happier and more competitors means competitions are better off.

The key is to make it into a great day of competition. The NSW Fed have always done well but there were always things that could be done to be improved. We decided to do our own invent fixing up what we thought were the problems. In turn the NSW Fed improved their event forcing us to improve.

Everyone benefits from more competitions. The competitors and the promoters. We're not trying to put anyone out of business but to improve the sport. If we become more succesful we know that it will also help the NSW Fed as well and vice versa.

My post above was to show that there is hope for the competitors. Don't give up on competing. If you want to compete and do well overseas you really do need to compete here. The more you compete the better you will get.

BenBJJ a question for you. When you say you don't much from competing here what do you mean? Is it too easy? Not enough matches? Do you not enjoy it? Is it too hard? What can be done to improve it for you? What needs to be done for you to get something from it?

Elvis



Good points elvis.

When you say you don't much from competing here what do you mean? Is it too easy?

Definatly not too easy, but just sitting around all day (mostly coaching, which can be draining itself after 4 or more hours) you get tired then have to perform at your best. Its like doing a 3 hour exam at the end of the year and banking too much on it, then get metal blank and fail. When you know that you got way more to offer.

I tend to put alot of pressure on myself and get mental blanks. So I just feel real bad on myself and this, to me is not something I enjoy. Sure I learn from it, but Im just not as competitive in general as I was when I started (28).

Not enough matches? Nope. Usually just one, lucky to have two scheduled.

Do you not enjoy it?
Not a whole lot. Im not as competitive as I used to be.

Is it too hard? Difficulty is not a reason for me to stop something. I have skateboarded my whole life and that is infinatly more difficult than BJJ.

What can be done to improve it for you?
Really not too sure. The timing of matches is the obvious one, however, this can be difficult, even with the best laid plans.

What needs to be done for you to get something from it?
I really am not looking to GET something from everything in life. I like having an enjoyable day. Sometimes the comps are, sometimes not.
5/20/09 1:52 AM
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BenBJJ
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GeezerDownUnder - Those are certainly some good points Elvis! When is your next event? might try and make the trip up.

And as for BenBJJ, he trains at a club with multiple world champions (just see their website), so I guess that is all he needs to know.


I didnt make the website and there are things on there that I would change.
5/20/09 4:51 AM
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Rogerology
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The only way the sport will grow is if people compete, the lower belt divisions of white and blue seem to generally get good representation but after that it goes downhill. For some reason, as people reach purple belt or higher they tend to disapear, in saying that you always see new white belts in every division at every comp never to be seen again at future comps, so maybe it's just the nature of such an intimidating sport.Having a masters division also I don't like, there just aren't enough people to cater for an adult and masters, so just make the oldies compete with the adult division, if they can roll and train with mixed ages at there club I can't see why they can't in competition.

I think money as a prize may be the only incentive to get higher belts to compete, how much?? I have got no idea, but I remember in the early days, the absolutes actually did give prize money.The Adcc gi comp proved that people will put it on the line if there is some real incentive to compete.

Free entry for the 2 finalist of the previous comp as cost of travel and possibly having to take a day off if you work weekends does mount and reducing those costs might make it easier.

Maybe a fixtures where clubs visit the others club and compete at every possible weight and belt division of a morning.

Combining weight divisions and having less weight divisions as to have more matches for people and this seems to be happening now in competitions in purple belt especially where purple has just had an absolute division which is good.
5/20/09 9:00 AM
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walbjj
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one of the reasons i think that the higher belts dont compete as much is that generally with bjj, the time taken to get to purple is on average 4+ years. this in itself means that most bjj players r in their mid to late 20s and even 30s. this means that most will prob have families and other commitments on a weekend, which in turn means they forgo competing for their personal lives.
as far as a moentary prize, i think this is a great idea. with $50 being the entry, if u get 6 black belts entered, thats $300 in the pool, if half of it goes to the winner, in a winner take all, then the rest can cover the costs of competition.
however, i do understand that most of the bb get free entry for refereeing on the day, so this is an issue
5/20/09 9:35 AM
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bluesky
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Do people believe by lowering the fee to say perhaps $20 or even $10 would entice more participants? If the answer is no then obviously there are greater issues then just money.
5/20/09 10:11 AM
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BenBJJ
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Think about what you can get for $50.

8min jiu jitsu com with the stress etc. and a day of waiting around, regardless of knowing what time your match is on.

For me, its a ticket to my favourite metal band and they play for and hour or more.

Its 10 beers at the pub, which is an afternoon and evening of fun with friends.

I could care less about t-shirts. I use them for dusting.


Really, what do you get after you have experienced the highs and lows of competing as white-purple? You learning someting? For me, not a whole lot. As a white / blue competitions will boost your game immensly.

I am quite apathetic to it all.
5/20/09 7:42 PM
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Elvis
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This definitely brings some interesting insight into the situation. I appreciate all the input. I think with this we can really improve. We want everyone at all belt levels to want to compete. We have some great incentive ideas to get people motivated. Alas I can't discuss them yet because a). nothing has been finalised and b). I don't want anyone to steal our ideas. :)

We really are trying to improve competition for the competitors, the coaches and us the promoters. If eveyone is happy then comps become more fun to attend. That is the first thing we're working on. Making it a good day. Now with our comps you know what time to turn up and start warming up. Not having to wait around all day and warm up 5 times (which I know I have had to do in the past) is a vast improvement froma competitors point of view. Hopefully each step will bring more competitors back to the mat.
 

Elvis
Events BJJ

5/20/09 7:52 PM
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GeezerDownUnder
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Sounds like there is a lot of positivity on this thread! :-)

Going to my point about entry fees. Here is another example. My kids have just started playing football (or soccer as you call it over here). I pay the club/coach to run it for the season. There are also other small costs such as uniforms, oranges etc ... but that's it. When they play on the weekend, I don't get asked to fork out $5 to just watch!

In BJJ I'll be asked to pay anywhere up to $150 a month (as they get older), plus a new gi when they grow, plus the $50-ish entry fee, then my wife & I turn up to watch and we get slugged another fee? It's not the $5, but more the principle of it.

If, on the other hand, the black belts fought on a different day, maybe 6pm on the friday night for example, and the entry fee was $20, this money could go towards them. If you offered $500 (or whatever ...) prize for each winner then the blacks would come back to the mat.

At the last NSW BJJ comp, how many black belts where there watching? There were a few at the vics.

just an idea ...
5/20/09 8:48 PM
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Elvis
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Even though I didn't start this thread I appreciate all the input. Seriously we will take everything into consideration. It will take time but we plan to make every Events BJJ tournament better than the previous. As I mentioned we have some ideas on how to improve/add incentive but they will all take time to implement. Hopefully everyone has seen the improvement from the first comp to the second. The third will be even better.

Seriously anyone with any ideas or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Elvis
Events BJJ

5/20/09 10:20 PM
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Chesty Armstrong
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 Sinisterstore.com.au provided about $2000 retail value of prizes at the last EventsBJJ comp and provided the winners and runner ups of each div at the ADCC trials with giftpacks valued at around 400 bucks each.
We're looking forward to working with organisers to make these comps better each time.
If you want the events you compete in to be more value,make sure you support the sites that are willing to reward you for your own efforts
www.sinisterstore.com.au 
5/21/09 7:38 AM
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Rogerology
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Chesty Armstrong -  Sinisterstore.com.au provided about $2000 retail value of prizes at the last EventsBJJ comp and provided the winners and runner ups of each div at the ADCC trials with giftpacks valued at around 400 bucks each.
We're looking forward to working with organisers to make these comps better each time.
If you want the events you compete in to be more value,make sure you support the sites that are willing to reward you for your own efforts
www.sinisterstore.com.au 


Chesty, I got one of the runner up packs at the adcc and I was definately suprised and impressed with it's contents, had some awesome shirts, hats etc.

Thanks alot for the support, and as you say I hope people do support you guys. If you do promotion patches for gi's I would be more then happy to whack one or two on mine to help promote the store, and will check you guys out when I am needing some more fight shorts.
5/21/09 9:06 AM
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MMAFun
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"Do people believe by lowering the fee to say perhaps $20 or even $10 would entice more participants? If the answer is no then obviously there are greater issues then just money"

Being a student and only working part time, I think this would be a good idea. :)
5/21/09 10:31 AM
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dojo stormer
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interesting question in regards to cheaper entry fees.

the answer is it depends on your life circumstances. as mentioned, if you're a student then for sure you will jump in for a roll.

if you're an older person with family/career committments then cost is not really an option.

i for sure know that i find it hard to even make it to the comps to watch, let alone even bother to even consider to compete after i've worked 60-70 hours in a week. training is all i've got and after doing it for a few years now, bragging rights don't mean much to me.
5/21/09 2:09 PM
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RobMcKenzie
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I have got to say there's really a lack of motivation to compete in any afbjj comps (in Victoria, not sure about how they're run interstate) these days.

Ends up costing $60+ just to enter one division, only to have a white belt ref coach your match and completely screw you over.

I haven't competed in the last few comps for various reasons, but have gone to every one to support my team.
And every time i go, i just watch not only guys from my own team, but guys from other teams get screwed by dodgy reffing, and stupidly long waiting periods to their matches.

My little brother was told he would be on at 11am, didn't end up competing til 2pm (and that was in the kids division).

Dominance had the right idea with their comps, and i'm a big fan of the round robin format, but now their fees have gone up to $40 entry and $15 to spectate?!!?!

I lived in Brasil for 6 months training, and probably entered about 6 or so different comps of different sizes, and every single one of them was run with no hiccups at all.

Something's really gotta be done...
5/21/09 8:08 PM
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bluesky
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Edited: 05/21/09 8:12 PM
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With any business you need to ask yourself whether you are offering value for money, more so during these economic times. As many have stated is it worth standing around all day to have 1 wrestle if you lose and sometimes 1 wrestle just for 1st place!

I do not have the answers but if the format remain as it is, I think organisers need to lower the entry fee.

I like the idea of round robin or repercharge (time permitting) and also combining the masters and seniors together.
5/21/09 11:45 PM
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DMMA
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Edited: 05/21/09 11:49 PM
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Hey Rob,

I totally understand your issue with paying $15 to spectate at an MG tournament. We have done this on purpose, and it's not to gouge people. Our comp is for the fighters, and to allow them to get used to competing, it always has been. With this in mind we actually don't want spectators, we want the fighters to be able to focus on fighting and deal with those pressures first.
But if you really want to come along and watch, then it's $15. This actually keeps the numbers down, which we want.

This is also why we don't publish results, it's not about winning so much as getting in there and having a go, getting experience under your belt without the usual who har of other comps.

The entry fee being $40. We feel this is very cheap for what is on offer. We think it's actually the best deal going around. We've been running this comp for over 4 years and it started out at $30 back then. So it's gone up $10($2.50 p.a avg.) and it's not to look at rising again for quite a while. Our spectator fees haven't changed over that time at all. A comp where you have at least 4 fights guaranteed, the comp is well run and everyone is done by 3pm. Our most recent comp had 3 mats running. We get the comp going quickly and you know that you will be fighting regularly every 30 - 45 minutes or so.

Cam
5/22/09 12:31 AM
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BenBJJ
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^^^ Sounds good actually. Excuse my ignorance, but how does you round robin run?

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