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Michigan Underground >> Fake belts!!


7/19/09 10:12 AM
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BigDawgCrab
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So last night I go to a very good amature mma show in Lansing MI.

While there I run into a guy named DALE KINNER. This guy has been running around Lansing telling people he is 2nd degree Blackbelt in BJJ. Being a blackbelt myself, I was interested in meeting him.

To clarify matters I asked if is a blackbelt in BJJ and he said yes. I asked who gave him his blackbelt and he said, Carlson Gracie Jr. To make sure I asked if he meant JR in Chicago and he said yes.

Well,,,, I grabbed my phone and called Jr while standing with DALE KINNER. Dale said, Good luck and walked away when he saw me calling Jr.

I followed him and spoke with Jr who said he has never heard of DALE KINNER and asked to speak with Dale. I went into a room where Dale was and told him Jr wanted to speak with him and he said no he didn't want to speak with the guy who gave him his blackbelt!!!

DALE KINNER in Lansing Michigan, 517-230-0314 was the number for the gym he gave me.

I also saw a sign for Matt Torres and Brad Johnson who claimed to be brown belts in BJJ. I spoke with Matt for a few seconds. He had a weird story about training with Miletich, so I asked if Miletich had given him his brown belt and he said no. Then he mentioned training with Ciaque BJJ. I asked if he got his brown belt from Ciaque and he said no. Then he explained that he is a "equivalant" of a brown belt because he has tapped every blackbelt he has ever trained with!!

Matt introduced me to some older man, and quickly left the room. This other guy then told me that Matt is the real deal and has tapped Miletich in 30 seconds! Told me how Matt can tape any blackbelt in the UFC in under 1 minute. He then told me that they look at belts differently then most... he explained that the color doesn't matter to them, just the results... I asked why they advertise being brown belts... I was (again) explained that Matt has trained with UFC level fighters, even made Rashad Evans what he is today, and has tapped them all!!!

This older guy asked where I got my blackbelt and I said, Jorge Gurgel. He told me Matt and Brandon could tap JG out in 30 seconds. I told him that JG would be in Grand Rapids this coming weekend and they should come train!!!

I was then told about cost to train at this place... $99 a month for 1 1 1/2 training session a week upto $250 for 3 1 1/2 hour training sessions a week!!!!
7/19/09 10:48 AM
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Samuraidog
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Unfortunately, it looks like this kind of thing is happening all too often lately. There was a thread a little while back about some other fake black black belt teaching in Michigan.
7/19/09 11:03 AM
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Samuraidog
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Looks like a couple of BJJ black belts listed here. Very disrespectful to the guys who have put in a lot of years of hard work to earn the belt.

http://flintmma.com/Bios.html

Matt Torres
Height : 6 feet 0 inches
Weight : 175 pounds
Fights: Right/ Traditional
Style: Jiu-Jitsu
Record: 15-4
Black Belt Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Education: Lansing Community College
7/19/09 11:17 AM
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Angelo Popofski
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Matt Torres is definitely not a BJJ brown or black belt under or has ANY affiliation with Caique Bjj. He has been to our school once and is friends with one of our purple belts. That's about as much BJJ knowledge I think he has.
7/19/09 11:37 AM
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Angelo Popofski
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Good job on busting that Dale Kinner guy's balls Clint. Funny stuff that you got Junior on the phone like that.
7/19/09 12:43 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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The sign for Matt Torres and Brad Johnson said Brown Belt in BJJ!! Matt didn't want to talk to me much when he realized I knew what I was talking about!!

Dale Kinner tried to talk with me later. I told him to stop lying about who he is, he told me he didn't lie about being a black belt... I told him Jr said he did and asked him to talk to Jr on my phone in front of his students,,, he walked away...

It's sad that these guys are charging people $$$$ making claims that are false!!
7/19/09 1:00 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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The sign also said Brad Johnson had over 300 wins in wrestling with only 23 losses....didn't say high school, college, kids etc
7/19/09 1:07 PM
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Angelo Popofski
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Where did you see this sign, Clint? We had a guy come in and say that he trained with Noe in Flint, but Noe shut down without telling anyone. Not sure if Matt was at that same school or not.
7/19/09 1:15 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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It was posted on the front doors of the gym where they train... Go Workout gym in Lansing.. I wonder if the owners of that gym know what's going on?
7/19/09 1:17 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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I took a pic on my digital camera just in case!
7/19/09 1:32 PM
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Angelo Popofski
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BigDawgCrab - It was posted on the front doors of the gym where they train... Go Workout gym in Lansing.. I wonder if the owners of that gym know what's going on?

Hmmm... Might be worth a phone call, Clint. Lol.
7/19/09 6:46 PM
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Khillah
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 I am a 10th degree pink belt and would love to challange these guys, hope they are not too big :) what do you think big dawg, can I take it, if so would you promote me to 11th degree pink belt?
7/19/09 6:48 PM
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Khillah
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 actually, I'm really like the "equivalant" of like a 15 stripe camo belt.
7/19/09 7:16 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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I KNOW you can take them bro!!! 15 Strip pink camo belt being ordered now!!! lol
7/19/09 7:17 PM
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451 MMA
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BigDawg- I'm guessing that you were at Ron's show, Hooter's parking lot? Did you have anyone fighting?


The following is for info only - no endorsement or criticism.

Never heard of Dale Kinner, but havent paid real attention to Lansing MA since 2006. Did he have someone fight on the show?

I remember Matt training with Sam Wells back in 1997 & MMA fights were going at the Black Squirrel(name might be wrong but it was a bar on the border MI/Indiana?)

To my knowledge(which is limited, don't take it as gospel) the only ranked BJJ instructor in Lansing is Dan Smith under the Machados.

Matt fought Jason Holmes in Sept.'08, my guys debut on the same card. here is link to the article.

http://www.total-mma.com/2008/09/28/mma-at-the-grassroots-capital-cage-fights-in-lansing-mi/

-Josh
7/19/09 7:33 PM
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BigDawgCrab
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Josh,

I had the first fight of the night were my guy won, and then another guy lost 2nd round tko,, and then my girl won the belt on the last fight of the night...

IDK how many people he had fight on the card, I do know his girl got knocked out by my girl and then my guy knocked his guy out in first fight of night.
7/19/09 8:09 PM
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451 MMA
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Edited: 07/19/09 8:59 PM
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Clint, Congrats on the women's title, that was Jen? I just talked to one of my guys that went ( I was in Ohio for some training this weekend) he said that he had talked to you for a bit at the show.

edited to add: I just went to Dale Kinner's myspace, I have seen him cornering guys, his team is Wolfpack Vale Tudo out of Jackson.

-Josh
7/19/09 9:21 PM
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glock4life
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Edited: 07/19/09 9:21 PM
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451 MMA - Clint, Congrats on the women's title, that was Jen? I just talked to one of my guys that went ( I was in Ohio for some training this weekend) he said that he had talked to you for a bit at the show.

edited to add: I just went to Dale Kinner's myspace, I have seen him cornering guys, his team is Wolfpack Vale Tudo out of Jackson.

-Josh

 Hmmm, If they're from Jackson I wonder if Quincy knows anything about them.

He's the Keyser Söze of martial arts & Jackson.
 
7/20/09 9:23 AM
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Train Judo
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Edited: 10/19/09 11:26 AM
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MMA in jackson is a joke..
7/21/09 7:19 PM
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mortician
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i always say im a gold singlet in wrestling.
7/21/09 8:17 PM
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TrainBJJ
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urine isnt a color it's a stain:)
7/22/09 12:38 AM
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UltraFly
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just check shamir's puerto rico shirt... bong!
7/22/09 4:28 PM
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Kyle Cooley
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Matt Torres has been around the Lansing area for a long time. In fact, I used to train his gym while he was gone, so I never got the change to meet him. I'm pretty sure Rashad did used to train with him before he was on the Ultimate Fighter. I don't know anything about Matt's rank in Jiu Jitsu, but I don't believe he holds one. Most people in the area will tell you he is a legit fighter though.

When I went to MSU, I don't think there was really anyone that held rank higher than a blue belt that I know of except maybe Dan Smith at American Martial Arts but...........
7/22/09 6:43 PM
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Angelo Popofski
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That's just the thing.... Why lie about a made up rank in BJJ? People know Matt, and know that he's a tough guy and legit fighter. Why not promote yourself off the things you really DID do? I just don't understand why guys do this. It's actually pretty sad and pathetic if you ask me.
7/22/09 7:37 PM
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Mark1
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 Man, now I am starting to feel bad about telling the hot girl at work that I used to "train UFC" years ago.  She took it as I was some kinda stud athlete. 

I didn't correct her.

So if a hot chick named Megan asks any of you guys if you know a guy named Mark that is a "Ultimate Fighter", the answer is YES.

Thanks,

Mark

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