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7/22/09 2:04 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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LoveToChoke - So why not just train with a BJJ black belt here in Australia? What do you think you will get training with Eddie every few months that you can't get from an instructor here? As a blue belt I'm thinking that there are a lot more important things for you to be working on than rubberguard or twister.


Do you teach things like butterfly sweeps, closed guard sweeps etc?


Lovetochoke,

That's a great question that so many people have asked me many times.

First of all, I actually have. I trained in the Machado system under one of John Will's purple belts in 2003 - 2006. I was graded bluebelt in 2005. During this time, I trained with John Will every 3rd Monday night as most did at the time, if you weren't from his school in Geelong, for the entire time I was there. Obviously, I could not get to him personally.

2nd Question:
What do I think I will get out of training with Eddie Bravo every few months? Stacks mate. The 1st initial trips helped enormously and I put in the big numbers and continue to improve to where I am now. I only come home with only a few new tactics at a time, which doesn't overwhelm me with overloading my brain, then I practice and put in the numbers. It works for me! I have access to his top guys all the time who are my good mates and they offer assistance when I need it. It might seem lame, but thee are many good instructors who are in the same boat around town.

I love the no gi game , so I chose to pursue Eddie's no gi system, as, in my opinion, I felt it to be, effective and the most challenging. I always gravitated to the no gi game and I am very ambitious, so the thought of traveling to see Eddie roll, and to really have good look at his game really interested me.So once I got there, I saw his game and how effective it was, and I became hooked!

So now the rest is history and I do teach all the very essential fundememntals. Surely you don't think that we don't sweep or have to learn any critical fundemental things in the 10th planet JJ System do you??

We don't just learn rubberguard and the Twister?? Dude, we cover everything that any BJJ system covers and that includes sweeps, escapes, all positional control and tactics including closed guard attacks and sweeps, but from a different perspective, that's all. Its essentially the same thing, it just has a few unique angles and tactics.

Appreciate the questions, gives me a chance to tell my story.

Frank
7/22/09 2:05 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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walbjj - ^^^ exactly. although 10thpjj is a "different" system of jiu jitsu, its still essentially grappling, it uses no gi, so do a lot of clubs. it uses rubber guard, however rg is only a small component of grappling and ive never seen any top level or even mid level guys use it effectively and regularly in competitions.
as a whole, i tend to think that just training with the best instructor that u can possibly find that is convenient to u is the first step in grappling. at the beginner and blue belt stage, ur just getting started, trying to find the magic bullet wont come from a "system"


I understand where you are coming from. But there is nothing to be ashamed about being a Blue belt in eddie Bravo's system

FB
7/22/09 2:13 AM
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BenBJJ
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'System'
7/22/09 2:14 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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walbjj - ^^^ exactly. although 10thpjj is a "different" system of jiu jitsu, its still essentially grappling, it uses no gi, so do a lot of clubs. it uses rubber guard, however rg is only a small component of grappling and ive never seen any top level or even mid level guys use it effectively and regularly in competitions.
as a whole, i tend to think that just training with the best instructor that u can possibly find that is convenient to u is the first step in grappling. at the beginner and blue belt stage, ur just getting started, trying to find the magic bullet wont come from a "system"


Agreed! I am just getting started, and from where i am sitting, its only going to get better, and personally, from what I have seen in my travels and limited experience ( about 30 years in the MA's) it is unique and is effective! Very effective in fact. The reason you have not yet SEEN it in comps is that most people don't know what they are doing with it! I do not mean that in any harsh or arrogant way either, its the truth! How many people do you see posting on line how to break the RB and craziness like that? Stacks!!! But do you know who the best RG defenders are???
10th Planet JJ fighters as they are schooled in it from the very basics right through to the advanced stages, so it would make sense as to why this would be so wouldn't it?

Secondly, the 10th Planet JJ system is very young in the scheme of things, so it is going to take some time. I takes at least 10 - 12 years to become a Blacbelt in any BJJ system after all.

If you look at the UFC you see it more and more, and especially if you look at B and C grade shows its getting more and more usage and IS getting there!

Just for the record, I am not looking for the magic bullet in my submission gun, personally, I think I found it! We will just have to wait and see what unfolds as more and more people train harder and progress.

Love this forum !!
7/22/09 2:15 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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BenBJJ - 'System'


that's what I said
7/22/09 2:18 AM
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BenBJJ
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10 for your troll!

The Australian forum hasnt had this much action in years!
7/22/09 7:14 AM
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armbarcrashdummy
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Edited: 07/22/09 7:41 AM
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Not everyone agrees with the whole 10th Planet thing, but Frank's been up front and legit about the whole thing, answered any questions about it all and generally been pretty cool.

I don't see Frank pulling a Brandon Quick or potentially inflating credentials like Bolden has been accused of, and he does have good credentials in other martial arts. If folk want to train with Frank and give the 10th Planet stuff a go, I don't see any issue with it.

Hell, I've been playing around with RG for years, simply because I found it good for tiring out behemoth wrestlers.

I do however agree with some folks comments about beginners worrying about fundamentals instead of 'tricky' moves (and that's what a lot of 10th Planet is). I wasted A LOT of time as a white belt trying RG stuff because I am very flexible and it did seem like some sort of magic bullet. The result? It probably took me 12-18 months longer than it should have to get my Blue belt simply because I'd neglected a lot BJJ fundamentals in favour of flashy submissions. I've even got a video of me trying for about 5 minutes to Twister one guy when I could've tapped him half a dozen times in the same period.

If Frank (or anyone else) feels like having a laugh, here's me doing RG BADLY (along with a few other things) in the gi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezqe4oy1jKA
7/22/09 7:25 AM
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armbarcrashdummy
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Frank,

One small thing that is worth bearing in mind:

Short of ADCC, a LOT of the submissions in 10th Planet are illegal in competition for beginners and intermediate levels. The twister, most compressions, most neck cranks, twisting footlocks etc.

If your guys put a lot of energy into training those moves, they may not get many chances to use them in competitions.
7/22/09 8:12 AM
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dojo stormer
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does eddie teach takedowns or does he just teach you entries to half guard?

serious question because i've seen eddies dvds and read his books and i can't recall any takedown techniques.

in fact in his twister dvd he makes light of the fact that he has the choice of "taking down" his opponents with devasting double legs but rather chooses to pull half guard.

thanks for the answers frank
7/22/09 8:39 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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BenBJJ - 10 for your troll!

The Australian forum hasnt had this much action in years!


Hey Glad to hear it!!

Dude, I have no problem answering anything you want to throw at me. Call it trolling or what not but it goes both ways ok??

So tell me your Jits background dude?
7/22/09 9:08 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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armbarcrashdummy - Not everyone agrees with the whole 10th Planet thing, but Frank's been up front and legit about the whole thing, answered any questions about it all and generally been pretty cool.

I don't see Frank pulling a Brandon Quick or potentially inflating credentials like Bolden has been accused of, and he does have good credentials in other martial arts. If folk want to train with Frank and give the 10th Planet stuff a go, I don't see any issue with it.

Hell, I've been playing around with RG for years, simply because I found it good for tiring out behemoth wrestlers.

I do however agree with some folks comments about beginners worrying about fundamentals instead of 'tricky' moves (and that's what a lot of 10th Planet is). I wasted A LOT of time as a white belt trying RG stuff because I am very flexible and it did seem like some sort of magic bullet. The result? It probably took me 12-18 months longer than it should have to get my Blue belt simply because I'd neglected a lot BJJ fundamentals in favour of flashy submissions. I've even got a video of me trying for about 5 minutes to Twister one guy when I could've tapped him half a dozen times in the same period.

If Frank (or anyone else) feels like having a laugh, here's me doing RG BADLY (along with a few other things) in the gi...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezqe4oy1jKA


armbarcrashdummy,
I appreciate your comments regarding my legitimacy and my creds, I was prepared for this to happen so for someone to do their homework on me is a good thing I believe in anything worthwhile, especially MA's.

Tricky moves?? I can't say I agree. Being immersed in the system for 3 + years has taught me to think outside the box, and in doing so, to the unfamiliar, might seem exactly that, 'tricky and flashy', but, it isn't at all the case. Like any other fundamental tactics you learn in any other mainstream BJJ academy, you have to master the steps 1st. Most people who bag the 10th Planet JJ system, HAVE NO GROUNDING IN THE IN 10TH PLANET SYSTEM, so how can you say it is flashy or doesn't work??

I just think that by my contribution now and in the future, we just might see it working the way it was supposed to.

In re: to the extra 18 months in lost time to Blue belt??
I have to agree with you?
You see, most people are leaping from no fundamental base to start with, meaning, have no grounding in the system to move from in 1st place. All 10th Planet JJ tactics, have a pathway you go down, which lead to only a couple of options initially, that is where the juice is in the system, its simple, go left or go right.

If you are taught properly 'in the system' from the get go or by a QUALIFIED instructor who understands it well, helps make the connections and transitions clearer, you will ALWAYS have a red hot crack at finishing the fight at that moment, regardless of what system you train in. So you don't get this "...........I'll try rubberguard now......" and fuck it, all up because he has no clue about how to SET it up properly.

last point, re: the twister scenario and could have tapped the guy with a billion other subs??

Well, to know you wanted that Twister so badly in a comp, now that's awesome! To pursue it for so long, I am impressed, but honestly, I agree, in that moment you probably could have finished the fight with other ways, but like any other way of grappling, you have to learn the fundementals 1st, and in the 10th planet JJ system, they are all there! Overhooks, underhooks, head control, grip organisation, timing, balance displacement, hip mobility, flexibility, leg dexterity, body weight, pressure, experience, reps and numbers etc.. Sound familiar?? Just sounds like BJJ to me? All BJJ tactics work, it is usually the dude doing it that screws it up!

Awesome discussion!!

Just my 2 x cents worth!!
7/22/09 9:18 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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dojo stormer - does eddie teach takedowns or does he just teach you entries to half guard?

serious question because i've seen eddies dvds and read his books and i can't recall any takedown techniques.

in fact in his twister dvd he makes light of the fact that he has the choice of "taking down" his opponents with devasting double legs but rather chooses to pull half guard.

thanks for the answers frank


Hi dojo stormer,
Q1. Nah mate no love on the takedowns, and Eddie is the 1st to admit that his expertise is not take downs but he is real open minded and knows the game well, so he usually handballs it to Conor Heun, who is one of my best friends in LA and who is a great MMA fighter too actually. He is a wrestler out of Colarado. He wrestled for Ithica and has been at it since he was 3 yrs old, so Conor is the man at 10th Planet in that department. He just fought Jorge Gurgel on the last showtime card 3 weeks ago.

Eddie loves pulling half guard and is super strong. His squeeze is unbelievable!! His Boa ( dble underhooks body lock from 1/2 Guard) is crazy tight and goes to dogfight all the time. Very tough to stop! He has Twister set ups from there as well and takes the back as an option. very slick!

Hope it helped.
7/22/09 9:21 AM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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armbarcrashdummy - Frank,

One small thing that is worth bearing in mind:

Short of ADCC, a LOT of the submissions in 10th Planet are illegal in competition for beginners and intermediate levels. The twister, most compressions, most neck cranks, twisting footlocks etc.

If your guys put a lot of energy into training those moves, they may not get many chances to use them in competitions.


Point taken and I appreciate the heads up. The great thing about the 10th planet JJ system, is that you can transition to plenty of other options if you know them to keep it within the rules, so it won't be a problem. For example, you can take the Twister from the back and have your opponent in the 'TRUCK;', you have about 8 - 9 finishes to take and sure some of them are illegal but I am sure that in BJJ you could neck crank them if you could right??
7/22/09 10:33 AM
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BenBJJ
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10thplanetjjmelbourne - 
BenBJJ - 10 for your troll!

The Australian forum hasnt had this much action in years!


Hey Glad to hear it!!

Dude, I have no problem answering anything you want to throw at me. Call it trolling or what not but it goes both ways ok??

So tell me your Jits background dude?


I have never used the term 'Jits' in a sentence, until now.

I plod along, happy with old man style jiu jitsu. I even did an armbar this week! Admittedly it was on a brand new white belt, but I will take what I can get these days!
7/22/09 8:33 PM
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Mr Dooley
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G'day guys,

i started MA training in 1995 at preston goju ryu, around 1 year ago my work situation changed and i could no longer make the training times there during the week or on the weekend. with the blessing of my sensei i looked elsewhere to train and visited numerous places around melbourne that fit with my working schedule.

i ended up training at 10th planet melbourne. Frank would have to be the best 'teacher' of martial arts that i have had the pleasure of training with, and is incredibly well credentialed. the atmosphere at the dojo is top shelf, everybody there with the common goal of learning. after looking around for place to train i found that it was really refreshing, i found a several places that had great facilities, but more of a 'let's fight' vibe and some places which had some questionable teachers and motives.

ive never really cared much for the whole gi vs nogi debate. my preference is for the nogi, but if you want to roll with a gi then great, i hope your getting the most out of your training and loving the world of MA.

im more than happy with the level of my training at 10th planet melbourne and with the quality and standard of teaching by Frank.

enjoy your MA boys! its great that MA is really alive and thriving in our country regardless of what style you choose!
7/22/09 8:35 PM
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BenBJJ
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Nice first post.
7/22/09 8:42 PM
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Mr Dooley
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thanks mate, training in bondi must be pretty sweet?
7/22/09 8:53 PM
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10thplanetjjmelbourne
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Mr Dooley - G'day guys,

i started MA training in 1995 at preston goju ryu, around 1 year ago my work situation changed and i could no longer make the training times there during the week or on the weekend. with the blessing of my sensei i looked elsewhere to train and visited numerous places around melbourne that fit with my working schedule.

i ended up training at 10th planet melbourne. Frank would have to be the best 'teacher' of martial arts that i have had the pleasure of training with, and is incredibly well credentialed. the atmosphere at the dojo is top shelf, everybody there with the common goal of learning. after looking around for place to train i found that it was really refreshing, i found a several places that had great facilities, but more of a 'let's fight' vibe and some places which had some questionable teachers and motives.

ive never really cared much for the whole gi vs nogi debate. my preference is for the nogi, but if you want to roll with a gi then great, i hope your getting the most out of your training and loving the world of MA.

im more than happy with the level of my training at 10th planet melbourne and with the quality and standard of teaching by Frank.

enjoy your MA boys! its great that MA is really alive and thriving in our country regardless of what style you choose!



Hey Mr. Dooley,
Great to hear from you man.

Hows Eddie going??

Say hi to the gang for me.

take care,

FB
7/22/09 8:54 PM
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BenBJJ
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There are many places to train BJJ in Sydney. I train at one of them.
7/22/09 10:04 PM
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Scott Epstein
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Good ol frankieee.. franks one of the good guys as you all can see , hes not gonna bite on your trolling attempts. i have trained with frank and he is very legit and always want to learn (no ego). frank ,they will come and they will insult the fuck out of you .realize "they" are less then 1% of the mma .tv community. dont worry ill be here to tell them that their moms are crack whores.
7/22/09 10:35 PM
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Mr Dooley
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Scott Epstein speaks truth.
7/22/09 11:31 PM
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Liteheavyweight
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Edited: 07/22/09 11:33 PM
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Here you go Frank. From the Roots website. Should answer your question re BENBJJ"Ben Miller Instructor of the Bondi Dojo. After a bad experience on the streets of Barcelona in2002 I started training BJJ to learn how to defendmyself. Paulo's ROOTS BJJ academy was around the cornerfrom me, so I started there.In 2007 I had the opportunity to train with Rey Diogoin LA and the phenomenal Marcelo Garcia in New York.I always try to play an attacking game and prefer toget the submission, and try to encourage my teamatesto do the same.I teach at the ROOTS Bondi headquarters academy onTuesday and Thursday nights. Come up and train." - Ben is a Brown Belt under professor Paulo Guimaraes.Don't let these guys fuck with you. Bashing 10th Planet seems to be a favourite sport around here. It is interesting that nobody at Eddie's level belittle's themselves by e-bashing eddie and his system. The Machado's wouldn't have given him a black belt and he wouldnt have done so well in the ADCC if his system was wank.I met Eddie when he visited JBW's club in Geelong a few years back and whilst nobody could argue that he is not a little out there he is a lovely bloke, a great technician and he has beaten some great fighters.Great to see you having a go and offering something a little different.Best of luck with the school. James

edited for spelling errors (wish I could type)
7/22/09 11:44 PM
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BenBJJ
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Edited: 07/22/09 11:45 PM
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I dont think I ever talked bad about Eddie Bravo (his music however...), but I do disagree with some of his affiliates that he has set up, and could arue against some of his theories towards BJJ.

I also do think the formative stages of BJJ should be based around solid basics, not tricks and singular positions. Hell, I want to learn LESS techniques and just get the big basic movements correct (ie Roger Gracies display of beautiful jiu jitsu).

It does seem that Frank is not like them, good luck to you!
7/23/09 12:14 AM
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Mr Dooley
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agreed, fundamentals and basics are the foundation for a solid ground game regardless of JJ, BJJ, 10thplanet, etc etc. definitely the way i prefer to train and have trained since i was a little tacker
7/23/09 12:24 AM
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LoveToChoke
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I agree with Ben.

Also, the more I learn the more I thought I knew "the basics", but in fact didn't. Which is why people at blue and purple belt level have so many variations of the same technique, but brown and black belts have LESS techniques and variations because they do it right the first time.

So as a blue belt/purple belt, while you may think you've got the basics down, it's more likely that you don't.

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