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8/7/09 10:55 AM
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Mr. Malcolm
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Edited: 08/07/09 10:58 AM
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Joe Silva Talks Gegard Mousasi: "We Never Even Made an Offer to Mousasi"

"I just touched base with Joe Silva and he explained this is basically what happened regarding Mousasi:"

 

"Mousasi called him Saturday because he suspected he had been lied to by his manager, Appy Echteld, regarding an offer of $40,000/$40,000 from the UFC and then encouraged to accept an offer from Strikeforce. According to what Mousasi shared, that amount was less than half of the purse agreement he had with Affliction but he trusted his manager and signed with Strikeforce. The UFC would have honored the Affliction deal of $125,000 purse plus win bonus had Mousasi signed with them."

 

"Contrary to the claim made today by M-1 that Mousasi was on the phone during negotiations with Joe Silva for his services, Joe adamantly denies that is true. Had that been the case, there would have been no reason for Mousasi to call Joe to question Echteld’s claim of a $40,000/$40,000 offer from the UFC."

-- CindyO (who's affiliated w/ Zuffa) on the UG with quotes from UFC's Joe Silva

[UPDATE] Carmichael Dave post's the official story on the Sherdog forums:

"So the 40/40 figure was obviously erroneous, right?"

"Not only did we not make an offer, but we would’ve assumed his Affliction contract and its terms. So whatever Affliction was paying him, that’s what we would’ve honored, and it was considerably more than 40/40," Joe Silva said."
Editorial Note by Brent Brookhouse: Bottom line:  M-1 lied to Mousasi to get him to sign a deal they wanted him to sign.  They looked out for their own interests instead of his.  They violated their duty to the client.  The fact that Joe said they didn't make an offer is actually worse.  It means that rather than lying about the numbers offered they cut off any potential negotiations by claiming a poor offer was made before the UFC had a chance to establish a starting point for negotiations 

SOURCE
8/7/09 10:57 AM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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 Of course she does. People hate because they are jealous.
8/7/09 11:00 AM
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TrainBJJ
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Edited: 08/07/09 11:02 AM
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She only has two points Im interested in...
8/7/09 11:02 AM
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Hong Kong Phooey
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 your interest will be a fantasy forever
8/7/09 11:02 AM
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Zedlepln
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It's pretty clear that people are going to believe what they want to believe, even if the various reports can be reconciled. It's just not possible for the parties around here to explain the events that unfolded without getting emotional over it.

He'll get some good fights in Strikeforce. The only real victim, if there was one, is Gegard. If he's ok with the way things have ended up, we should just move the fuck on.

8/7/09 11:04 AM
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Mr. Malcolm
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 But we'll never know how he really feels either. At least not until he gets away from M1 and signs with the UFC.
8/7/09 11:04 AM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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 Sounds like a point. 
8/7/09 11:04 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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 Did you guys really read those threads and come up with the conclusion that CindyO had a point??

Cindy indicated that the UFC had an offer out to Mousasi for the 125K number Affliction was paying him.  She later cited Joe Silva as a source.

Carmichael Dave then reported that the UFC had in fact made no offer to Mousasi.  He cited Joe Silva as a source.
8/7/09 11:07 AM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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Mad Xyientist -  Did you guys really read those threads and come up with the conclusion that CindyO had a point??

Cindy indicated that the UFC had an offer out to Mousasi for the 125K number Affliction was paying him.  She later cited Joe Silva as a source.

Carmichael Dave then reported that the UFC had in fact made no offer to Mousasi.  He cited Joe Silva as a source.

 It wasn't a formal offer but the point is the same. Mousasi could have gotten 125K plus bonuses and was lied to about that. Now he's getting less.
8/7/09 11:11 AM
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Crazy Zimmerman
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 MX, what Cindy said Joe said and what Joe said later are both the same.  Joe told Cindy that they didn't make an offer because the UFC would have honored the Affliction contract. That's the same thing he said later.
8/7/09 11:12 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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Sagiv Lapkin - 
Mad Xyientist -  Did you guys really read those threads and come up with the conclusion that CindyO had a point??

Cindy indicated that the UFC had an offer out to Mousasi for the 125K number Affliction was paying him.  She later cited Joe Silva as a source.

Carmichael Dave then reported that the UFC had in fact made no offer to Mousasi.  He cited Joe Silva as a source.

 It wasn't a formal offer but the point is the same. Mousasi could have gotten 125K plus bonuses and was lied to about that. Now he's getting less.

 LOL.....no.....he couldn't have.  There was no offer for that.  Certainly not by Carmichael Dave's report.

Read it again.  Joe Silva claims he "would have" honored Mousasi number......but didn't and couldn't make an offer because he was involved with the EA game and Silva had instruction not to sign anyone who was signed to EA.  As smoogy astutely points out, Mousasi also owes fights to DREAM and Zuffa doesn't sign fighters to non-exclusive deals.

Don't be tricked by "would have" language, particularly when its out there to do just that.
8/7/09 11:13 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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Edited: 08/07/09 11:14 AM
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Crazy Zimmerman -  MX, what Cindy said Joe said and what Joe said later are both the same.  Joe told Cindy that they didn't make an offer because the UFC would have honored the Affliction contract. That's the same thing he said later.

 Cindy claimed that the UFC made an offer for the 125k number and that Echteld lied and said it was only 40k.

Joe Silva said that the UFC "would have" offered 125k, but instead offered NOTHING.

Those are two different things on a pretty central issue of whether there was an actual offer or not.  

Whether there is an actual offer or not = matters
What an offer "would have" been based on conditions that aren't reality = immaterial.

He might as well have said our offer "would have" been $30 million for Mousasi.
8/7/09 11:16 AM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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Crazy Zimmerman -  MX, what Cindy said Joe said and what Joe said later are both the same.  Joe told Cindy that they didn't make an offer because the UFC would have honored the Affliction contract. That's the same thing he said later.

 I think that this is correct. I think MX is getting bogged down by semantics and is not understanding the idea the language is trying to convey. Just my opinion.
8/7/09 11:17 AM
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sparkyman
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Carl Weathers - "The UFC would have honored the Affliction deal of $125,000 purse plus win bonus had Mousasi signed with them."

The question is whether this was explicitly said to Appy or M1. When it says they made no offer, it certainly doesn't sound like they said "we'll sign you under the same terms as your Affliction contract" because that constitutes an offer. I'm more inclined to believe it's total bullshit by UFC who love to fudge numbers, 30 million offer anyone? They have no problem trying to cause stirs over money.

And it benefits them greatly to create a rift between Mousasi and his current management if they are affiliated with M1. It's bullshit heresay
Bullshit. Show me one concrete example of the UFC fudging numbers. If you have to give them credit for anything, it's having their shit together regarding contract negotiations.
 
8/7/09 11:18 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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 Whether or not an offer existed = semantics?

It's politically unacceptable to many people here, but the person who was actually right in this situation, was TOWE.
8/7/09 11:20 AM
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Zedlepln
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Mad Xyientist - 
Crazy Zimmerman -  MX, what Cindy said Joe said and what Joe said later are both the same.  Joe told Cindy that they didn't make an offer because the UFC would have honored the Affliction contract. That's the same thing he said later.

 Cindy claimed that the UFC made an offer for the 125k number and that Echteld lied and said it was only 40k.

Joe Silva said that the UFC "would have" offered 125k, but instead offered NOTHING.

Those are two different things on a pretty central issue of whether there was an actual offer or not.  

Whether there is an actual offer or not = matters
What an offer "would have" been based on conditions that aren't reality = immaterial.

He might as well have said our offer "would have" been $30 million for Mousasi.
It's a semantic distinction that is grey enough to have been confusing to the point that everyone thought they were correct. The bottom line is that Gegard isn't complaining so we shouldn't either.

That said, I do understand wanting to roast Cindy over it. She makes herself a target often, and even moreso in this particular case.
8/7/09 11:21 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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 Zuffa had no intention to sign Gegard Mousasi at any point.  There was no offer and there wasn't going to be.  Beyond the EA issue, there was the fights owed to Japan. 

Whether Echteld lied to Mousasi is certainly possible, but again, it relies on heresay from......wait for it......Zuffa.

the fact that you're accusing ME of spinning in this situation while simultaneously buying two conflicting Zuffa accounts about something they have a clear agenda on is hilarious
8/7/09 11:21 AM
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uglee
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The lie, if it happened isn't, what the UFC offered it's that they offered and it was a poor one. according to his managers. Now if he is told that they haven't offered maybe he dosn't sign with sf so quick and tells his people to try and get offer from UFC.
8/7/09 11:25 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Cindy O should have a green name, imo, for the number of times that she's been textually assaulted and pulled out the late-round submission.
8/7/09 11:25 AM
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Rappy Gilmore
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 lol @ MX acting like he knows what went down -

Good stuff (as usual) Cindy -
8/7/09 11:26 AM
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Sagiv Lapkin
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2JupitersTooMany - Cindy O should have a green name, imo, for the number of times that she's been textually assaulted and pulled out the late-round submission.

 Damn skippy.
8/7/09 11:30 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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Edited: 08/07/09 11:30 AM
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If you can read all this and come out with the conclusion that Cindy was accurate, I can't help you.
 
8/7/09 11:31 AM
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Zedlepln
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Mad Xyientist -  Zuffa had no intention to sign Gegard Mousasi at any point.  There was no offer and there wasn't going to be.  Beyond the EA issue, there was the fights owed to Japan. 

Whether Echteld lied to Mousasi is certainly possible, but again, it relies on heresay from......wait for it......Zuffa.

the fact that you're accusing ME of spinning in this situation while simultaneously buying two conflicting Zuffa accounts about something they have a clear agenda on is hilarious
This is the part that has me confused. What does it mean that they would have honored Affliction's contract? They'd allow him to fight once in the UFC? That doesn't make ANY sense.

Again, I get the impression that this shit is a bunch of confussion and probably mistranslation. Unless Gegard starts complaining, it's a non-story.
8/7/09 11:32 AM
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Mad Xyientist
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Edited: 08/07/09 11:33 AM
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Zedlepln - 
Mad Xyientist -  Zuffa had no intention to sign Gegard Mousasi at any point.  There was no offer and there wasn't going to be.  Beyond the EA issue, there was the fights owed to Japan. 

Whether Echteld lied to Mousasi is certainly possible, but again, it relies on heresay from......wait for it......Zuffa.

the fact that you're accusing ME of spinning in this situation while simultaneously buying two conflicting Zuffa accounts about something they have a clear agenda on is hilarious
This is the part that has me confused. What does it mean that they would have honored Affliction's contract? They'd allow him to fight once in the UFC? That doesn't make ANY sense.

 Bingo....you're the smart one.

 "Would Have" means NOTHING.

It means they are trying to find grounds to justify a cease and desist for a bout they have absolutely ZERO claim on.  When such an action is likely to be unpopular with the fans. 
 
8/7/09 11:33 AM
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Zedlepln
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2JupitersTooMany - Cindy O should have a green name, imo, for the number of times that she's been textually assaulted and pulled out the late-round submission.
Minotauress.

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