UnderGround Forums
 

Alabama Underground >> AGA Thanks!


8/22/09 6:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3324
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 
 Thanks to everyone who showed up to compete today!  We had a great time.  Cullman, Tuscaloosa, the Greater Birmingham Area, Jacksonville, Childersburg, and Montgomery were represented.

We had enough new members join that the tournament was free!!  That's right, new members paid the yearly dues and they and the existing members took advantage of a double elimination tournament for free!  Just one of the advantages of an organization looking out for its members instead of lining its pockets...

The purple and up heavy division was pretty interesting, as The Salter, John O'Brien, Chris Davis, and Chase Horton competed in it.  Everyone in all the divisions did a great job and showed lots of comraderie with everyone there.

Special thanks to the SFA and Tom Steadham for providing the venue opportunity.  Check out the fights tonight, if you are able.  Their next show will be in Oct.

The AGA is NAILING DOWN November 14 and 15 for its year end tournament.  Saturday will be no-gi and Sunday will be gi.  The tourny will be in Birmingham.  MARK YOUR CALENDAR NOW!
8/22/09 9:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 238
It was a lot of fun.

I really only have one suggestion:

Longer match times for the advanced divisions. 5 minutes just isn't enough. I think most people would prefer longer match times even if that means getting rid of the double elimination.
8/22/09 9:28 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
williepep
17 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/2/07
Posts: 2568
How did the Purple and up heavy division turn out?
8/22/09 11:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sbjjstreetcop
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/20/07
Posts: 498
We ended up with 2 purple divs. the heavy purple

1st place-John Salter
2nd place-John O'Brian
3rd place-Chase Horton(he is still a blue belt guys, he just wanted to fight his div and up one)

light Purple

1st place-Dusty Beeson
2nd place- Stuart Thompson
3rd place- Phillip Petersen
8/22/09 11:48 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sbjjstreetcop
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/20/07
Posts: 499
BTW, I think Josh has a point about the time limits. What do you guys think?
8/23/09 3:58 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3326
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 The "normal" purple and up lengths are 1 or 2 minutes longer than 5 minutes.  What are you going to do in 1 or 2 more minutes that you couldn't do in 5?  I would posit that you don't sit on your butt and wait for something to happen, that you make it happen for you. 

And the 5 minutes is 1 or 2 minutes shorter because it is double elim.  If you think that you can change the outcome of your match because you think you can get a sub, why can't you get it earlier?

John O'Brien is the same weight as you, L.  Not waaaayy bigger.  He was the smallest in that division.  Dustin is Triad and Stuart is SBJJ.  They actually both started training together, at around the same time at the same place. 

Yes, one or two minutes (or seconds) can change the match.  But if you are so certain you can change it, do it early.  I didn't see one match today that 1 or 10 extra minutes was going to change...( wait, I saw one white belt match that was a possible change situation... he shouldn't have waited so long...)  If someone thinks there was another of this type, please speak up.  I really wouldn't be opposed to changing the time limits or even doing away with the double elim if there were some empirical evidence to support a change.  Other than that one white belt match, which one was a candidate for changing the limits?
8/23/09 7:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3327
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 lol at 160...unless you've been sick!

And let me apologize if my post sounded like I was shouting at the keyboard.  I was not.  I think it is a good question that we should look at, and I think we should discuss why we would or would not change it.  

Personally, I think everyone really enjoyed watching the matches in that division so much that we all wanted to see more.  That is also a reason in itself to look at changing the time limits.    You do have to keep in mind though that the double elim format is geared to give everyone more mat time, not just the ones who win. 

So, having apologized if I sounded mad/stupid/shouty/pouty (which I wasn't thinking when I wrote the other post), discuss away!
8/23/09 10:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rbnsn82
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/27/06
Posts: 17
Great tourney. I'd love to see longer matches in the purple belt division just because it was so much fun to watch. The Johns match of the finals i could have watched all day and neither looked tired anyway.
8/23/09 10:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 239
John O'Brien normally competes/fights at 170.

No one can name specific instances where longer time limits would have changed the outcome because no one knows what would have happened. Subs can come out of nowhere. I think it's pretty common knowledge that some people take a little longer to get their game going than others, especially in the advanced divisions. Some people spend 3 minutes just feeling the other guy out. As this comp grows, you will see a lot of matches that never even go to the ground in 5 minutes. Then, you will have a winner even though noone did anything.

Everyone who's purple belt and above that I've told about the 5 minute matches was shocked. I got responses ranging from "WTF...that's crazy", to "what the hell are they thinking?". They didn't just think it was a bad idea, they thought it was ridiculous. I can say with absolute certainty that the super short round times for the advanced divisions will keep some advanced people from coming to these comps.

What can you do in 5 minutes that you can't do in 2? Why not just shorten the matches to 2 minutes then? If you can make it happen in 5, why not make it happen in 2? Some jiu jitsu guys don't train to "make" things happen. Sure, you try to set things up and blow some smoke, but you don't force things. Sometimes it takes longer for your opponant to make a mistake. 5 minutes isn't enough time for fatigue to be a factor either. It should be a factor. 5 minutes allows guys who are out of shape but really strong to come in and go balls to the wall right up until the end. Longer matches give the other guy time to wear that guy down and tap him. It allows jiu jitsu to be jiu jitsu.

Longer match times for advanced divisions are pretty much the norm in BJJ or grappling competitions. I see no benefit to trying to change that.
8/23/09 10:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 240
rbnsn82 - Great tourney. I'd love to see longer matches in the purple belt division just because it was so much fun to watch. The Johns match of the finals i could have watched all day and neither looked tired anyway.


It was a great match. Actually, all of the purple belt matches were fun to watch. The John O'Brien/Chris Davis match was a lot of fun to watch.
8/23/09 10:52 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
rbnsn82
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/27/06
Posts: 18
Completey agree. I don't think there was a single match that was not fun to watch.
8/23/09 12:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TomStedham
3 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/9/04
Posts: 394
I enjoyed watching the tournament, and not being a GI man myself, I learned a few things that will help me on the mat. That's always great...

Thanks to all the competitors for coming out, and I'm glad it was a success for the AGA. My next event is Oct. 24 in Brookwood, and I would love to have y'all back!

Tom Stedham, owner
SOUTHERN FIGHTING ALLIANCE
8/23/09 1:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Stranglehold26
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/31/04
Posts: 6476
sounds like a great tourney, wish I could have made it. I think since not a TON of people are in the advanced divisions, you would lose nothing by upping it to 7 minute rounds....you aren't talking about adding more than about 20-30 minutes to the overall comp time.

Not being there myself I can't speak with any authority on the issue, but why not pander to the masses if it doesn't take anything away from the tourney itself.
8/23/09 2:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MOWA Outlaw
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/23/02
Posts: 514
I think 5 is too short but I know where Hiza is coming from (double-elim could take forever). I like double-elim & don't want to see it eliminated.

I don't think an additional 2 minutes would've changed the outcome of any of the purple belt matches. In order for Jiu Jitsu to be Jiu Jitsu, take out time-limits completely.
8/23/09 3:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 242
Even if you do up advanced divisions to 7 minutes, AND do double elimination, these tournaments still won't be as long as a normal tournament.
8/23/09 3:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 243
MOWA Outlaw - I think 5 is too short but I know where Hiza is coming from (double-elim could take forever). I like double-elim & don't want to see it eliminated.

I don't think an additional 2 minutes would've changed the outcome of any of the purple belt matches. In order for Jiu Jitsu to be Jiu Jitsu, take out time-limits completely.


I don't think it would have either, but you know how quick an advanced guy can pull out a sub, especially in the gi. Every match could have ended differently. We can't know.
8/23/09 4:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
williepep
17 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/2/07
Posts: 2582
^^^^ don't worry I am sure they are all still champions in their own mind
8/23/09 4:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3329
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 Yep to all.  Good points.  I see no reason why we can't talk about upping it to 6 minutes, possibly. 

We do NOT want to lose the double elim format, because rolling and tournament experience are part of why we are.  6 minute rounds for those divisions would've added about 10 extra minutes, total, to the day. 

I, personally, don't want to see them get longer.  Other tournaments are single elim.  Other tournaments serve different purposes than ours.  Other tournament matches can be like watching paint dry, too (wasn't it one of the last major tournaments where 2 black belts came out, sat down, and started lesbian scissor action...).  Who really wants to watch someone lay on someone, waiting for a mistake?  You've got a time limit, you know you gotta make something happen.  You don't have to abandon the position/control/submission mantra, you just have to get on with it. 

Like Mowa said, the only "real" jj is no time limit, to submission.  Perhaps next year we can schedule one or two of these type tournies, to run along with another SFA or other show...?  We would have to strictly limit the number of competitors, but I don't think alot of people would, truthfully, want to be a part of that!  Everyone sure would like to watch, though.

8/23/09 4:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3330
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 Oh, and congrats to our own Josh J, winning the gold in his division!  He and Dave Hall did a best of 3, where they went all three rounds.  The last round, in particular, was pretty good.
8/23/09 5:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
boardbreaker
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/29/08
Posts: 91
I enjoyed the tourney and I hope that everyone had a good time. I am not saying that anyone is wrong, but my opinion is that a longer match just means that you are prepared to defend for longer. Most of the time, if it looks like there would be a change if it was longer, it is because the person winning knows its almost over and relaxes. With that said, I think we should talk about extending to maybe 6 minute matches in the more advanced divisions. But if our size grows quickly, that will make for a lot more waiting and people will be upset about that. The reason that we will stick with double elimination, is that people will improve more from more matches that fewer longer matches.
8/23/09 6:06 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 244
I totally see where you guys are coming from and I understand how this comp being double elimination makes things different. The only point I will argue with is Phil's point about long matches being boring to watch. Who cares what the spectators think really? In for profit comps I can see that mattering. From what I understand, this comp is for the competitors. If you choose to keep the matches short, please don't do it because of what you think spectators might think. I know me personally, and others I've talked to would much rather have a longer wait and see longer advanced matches in the advanced divisions. I know this is a grappling comp and not a BJJ comp, but BJJ comps have longer times for a reason. There is a lot of "feeling out" in BJJ. You have to test things, see how the other guy reacts and respond accordingly. This can take a while. By the time the match gets to the ground it's half over and you really don't have time to do anything. You are left either trying to force something, or stalling until the end if you are already up by points. If I had it my way the rounds would be Abu Dhabi style.

Thanks Phil. I've never done a 2/3 type bracket before. It was interesting. Dave seemed like a really nice guy.

I still think I should have gotten an advantage point in the first match though (hopes Tommy reads this...mwa hah ahah). From what I understood, his reasoning behind not giving me the advantage point was that the choke only worked because I was bigger, and because we were white belts. I disagree. I know people who can make that choke work on purple belts who are bigger than them. Regardless, I was choking his neck with his lapel and his face was turning colors and he was making funny noises. When I started that choke I never intended to try to finish it, only to get him to open his guard. I heard "10 SECONDS!", saw how he was responding to it, and tried to finish it. I remembered the "lighter guy wins" rule and didn't want to lose that way. In my opinion, it was definately a sub that he was having to defend very hard and should have resulted in an advantage point. But, thanks to the AGA's awesome double elimination I got a 2nd chance.

There....just had to whine about that a little.
8/23/09 6:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Josh J
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/4/09
Posts: 245
Oh....since I'm making suggestions and making life hell for you board members...


How about an absolute division? Short rounds, single elimination, no weight classes, no experience divisions. That would be awesome.
8/23/09 11:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3333
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 lol, it's all good man.  We shall take that up.

Don't worry about causing us grief, bro.  You don't even begin to touch some of my clients...  or any of James' arrests...  lol


8/24/09 12:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MOWA Outlaw
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/23/02
Posts: 515
Since most of the people there were up to roll after the tournament, why not @ the next GI tournament have a special division for free for all preregistered competitiors? Advanced only (purple & up) no time limit sub-only match. The GI divisions will be pretty small compared to No-GI anyway.
8/24/09 3:16 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Hiza Geri
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/04
Posts: 3335
Alabama Grapplers' Association, Inc
 That's a great idea.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.