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Australasia UnderGround >> It's time


8/30/09 7:33 PM
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Charles Xavier
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Hey guys,

I've been on this forum for a long time, so please ignore the fact that this appears to be my first post. At this point in time I feel it's important to remain anonymous.

For those of you who live in Melbourne, you will be well aware of the violence that is taking over the city at night. Many are blaming the police, the government, binge drinking etc. I think that they are contributing factors, but not the main issue.

As a martial artist, it frustrates me to read week in and week out about cowards roaming in numbers and assaulting innocent people and potentially ruining the lives of their victims.

I really think the reason that more and more cowards and thugs feel that they can get away with the violence, is that no one wants to get involved. We continually expect the government and courts to place harsher penalties on the criminals, the police to be everywhere all the time, and for the nightclubs to stop selling alcohol.

The simple fact is that society is responsible for society. Not the government and not someone else. If you're not apart of the solution, then you're apart of the problem, it's as simple as that. It's the many that turn and look away, the ones that don't want to get involved, the ones that say "it's not my problem" and the ones who are not willing to risk anything to stop the violence, they are to blame.

As the saying goes, evil prevails when good men do nothing.

The only reason that these thugs feel they can get away with the violence, is because they know that few, if any, will do anything to stop them. With that in mind, they run riot with no one to stop them.

If anyone wanting to commit a crime knew that while committing that crime that there would be numerous members of the community willing to step forward and stop them, and with the very likely chance of being handed over to the police, do you think they still would? I have friends that have been victims of this violence and I'm sure many others know someone that has also been a victim.

So what's my point?

My point is that I think it's time to set an example for our community and to take a stand against the violence that is flooding the streets. I'm seeking like minded martial artists who are willing to form a volunteer organisation to help stop the violence. A group that will help by being out and about in trouble hotspots to protect the many people who want to go out and have fun without the threat of being assaulted.

The roll of the organisation would be as a visible deterrent in trouble spots and to stop and detain individuals that are causing the violence.

There should be no room in this proposed organisation for thrillseekers, thugs or bullies. This organisation should embody and set an example of high values and expectations for the community that it would assist and represent.

I'm looking for positive feedback and input. I've been thinking about this for a long time and have a very clear idea of how this organisation would work. Of course I may not have thought of everything and look forward to other's input.

If you share my desire to help stop what's happening in Melbourne's streets, I would be keen to hear from you. You can either post on here or email me at charles.xavieratlive.com

Thank you

CX
8/30/09 8:02 PM
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AvAMajestic
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You will end up stabbed or in prison dude.

Vigilantism never works out well, even if you start with the best of intentions.
8/30/09 8:12 PM
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Charles Xavier
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Possibly, but i doubt it...at this stage anyway. It's thinking like that, that is the reason nothing gets done and why everyone just accepts how things are and why we have what we have now.

If no one stands up, takes ownership and makes an attempt with the risks associated then we must be happy to just accept what's happening without complaint.

Really trying to stay away from the vigilante/guardian angels thing as well. For me that has mostly negative connotations.

CX
8/30/09 8:38 PM
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byron2001
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Do we get paid?
8/30/09 8:59 PM
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Charles Xavier
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Depends on what you regard as payment. If by contributing to YOUR community by setting an example to make it a better place is considered being paid, then yes, you get paid. If you are after financial rewards, then no, you wont. I suggest you become a security guard.

CX
8/30/09 9:41 PM
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byron2001
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I suggest you should join the police force a long with any others you recruit.

It's a nice idea you've got, and the subject of helping strangers in danger has been a hot topic on these forums before.

Unfortunately, like AvaMajestic said. It would be viewed by the wider public as a Vigilante Group and the cops would come down hard on that stuff.
8/30/09 11:23 PM
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Tooler
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pfffft - Whatever Byron you pussy.

Count me in Professor X.

Do we get cool uniforms, aliases and superpowers?

I want to be Wolverine, the bad ass drifter, rough on the exterior but has a heart of gold and just wants to be accepted.

Ya that'd be cool, it matches my dark brooding personality.

Are you going to supply the claws or should I bring my own?
8/31/09 12:22 AM
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byron2001
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ROFL...that's some of your best work Tooler..
8/31/09 1:33 AM
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Charles Xavier
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Edited: 08/31/09 1:35 AM
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Hi guys,What a great start. So far Byron2001 you've made a few assumptions and asked only one question, and that was about financial reward. Perhaps a few more positive questions might help. I have a full time career and although I have considered joining the police force, I love what I do.

I'm willing and happy to spend my time and effort towards this for nothing in return. As i said, this is for mine and your community, yet you've brought nothing positive to the thread. That type of mentality is the same as wanting to be paid to mow your own lawns and wash your own car.

I want to stay away from the vigilante aspect, although I understand it would be potentially viewed in that way. The group would operate within the law like anyone else and if anyone in the group does break the law, they should have the law applied to them in the same way as anyone else. You could look at it in this way, it would be a group of good samaritans instead.

So that being said, the police would only be able to do something if were illegal, and I'm definitely wanting to keep all activities within the law. As I said earlier, the vigilante tag has a negative "take the law into your own hands" vibe associated with it, and I am trying to get away from that.

Very funny Tooler. Sorry man can't help with the costumes, but if you want to supply your own, be my guest. Any genetic mutations are yours alone.It's a shame though, I'm honestly trying to make a positive difference and actually do something here. So far I've received negativity and ridicule.

Perhaps the violence on the streets of Melbourne is what we deserve and I've over estimated my fellow martial artists.

So how about a few more questions and positive talk instead of assumptions and negativity.

thanks
CX
8/31/09 1:48 AM
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armbarcrashdummy
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It appears that CX wants to start something like the old Guardian Angels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels

Whilst I appreciate that you want to help, the Politicians and Police will likely see it as Vigiliantism and will make your life very difficult.

If you're keen on it, how about this approach - You get a group of people who are interested and you offer your services as 'bodyguards' for no cost? That way, the public have to approach you and there can't be an accusation that you're forming a gang of roving martial arts buffs.
8/31/09 1:59 AM
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Charles Xavier
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Hi guys,

Thanks armbarcrashdummy, that's a bit more like it. Yeah I did think about the guardian angels, and even they have a negative/thuggish image that I would prefer to stay away from. For me I have images of roaming the streets of NYC and the trains being tough guys, not what I'm after. Perhaps I' being too idealistic, but it's better than nothing.

The bodyguard idea is a different angle, but I prefer to be able to intervene/prevent assaults from occurring. I would like our presence to be enough of a deterrent. Not sure whether people would actually request our service. And it would be even more difficult while they are being assaulted to ask.

Thanks

CX
8/31/09 2:18 AM
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dojo stormer
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i don't live in melb so i don't know what has been happening. however i do live in sydney where i'm pretty sure we have more violent shit happening here then down in mexico.

no one seems to be doing jack shit about it because eventually these bozos will take each other out.

also i don't know which movie that saying comes from "evil prevails when good men do nothing". is that from the last batman movie? i think it is.
8/31/09 3:33 AM
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haunted
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Hi Charles

Interesting post!

I think most of us at some stage have entertained that thought.

It's unfair to assume people are plain scared, most people have alot to lose if things go wrong, ie; family, jobs, income, their life etc..

The problem I foresee is what starts out as a simple, step in, break up a fight situation can quickly esculate. All of a sudden good intentions are thrown out the window and IT'S ON!! In that case does that make you as an organized gang any different to them? You will get people that are only in it to test/assert themselves.
If it ends up in court, having a background in martial arts is never looked on favourably either(although anyone above blue belt knows they can still be bashed). So what you are asking is alot to consider!

In 2006 one of my younger cousins (27 at the time) was killed in mindless fight, he was trying to be a 'good samaritan' also. It was extremely hard to make sense of it, there were so many 'what ifs' and hindsights, at the end of the day he would still be alive if had just stayed out of it.

I too get angry when I see what's happening in the CBD, and I would be lying if I said I haven't wanted to go into the city and crack some skulls. But, there in lies the difference. As a martial artist I can take that aggression/frustration, whatever, out on the matt in a controlled enviroment without intentionally hurting anyone. These dicks in gangs probably don't have an outlet which is why I believe it comes down to education, are our schools equipped to deal with these idiots? Are parents losing touch with their kids? Is it a drug problem? These are the questions that need to be addressed in my eyes.

That said, I still think these scum bags need to be brought down!!

Haunted
8/31/09 9:23 AM
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AlexGilmour
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Wait, so you're suggesting a group of martial artists should roam around the CBD on weekends with the chance of seeing a fight to break it up?
Do we get uniforms and walkie talkies? If so I'm in!
8/31/09 9:50 AM
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Charles Xavier
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Edited: 08/31/09 9:54 AM
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Hi guys,

Unfortunately dojo stormer the cowards down here aren't taking each other out, they attack good and decent people trying to go out and enjoy themselves. The "evil prevails" quote comes from the bible i think. I definitely didn't get it from Batman, although it may have been quoted in the movie.

Haunted, I never said that anyone was scared. My opinion is that if the larger part of the community actually demonstrated opposition to violence when they see it, and this can be verbally (preferred way) as well as physical, then these cowards would feel less free to do as they please. If they knew that anyone and everyone that is a witness to what they commit will contribute to putting them behind bars, hopefully this will be a deterrent.

I understand where you're coming from but, if we continue to turn a blind eye, it wont get any better. The risks associated with confronting these cowards is a justified concern, but a safety in numbers approach will help reduce this. It's a price we may have to pay for society letting it get to this point in the first place.

I think all your points are valid and I considered them before starting this thread. Anyone wanting to be apart of this organisation will need to meet a set of criteria. Things like no criminal record of assault etc. A code of practice will also need to be implemented and adhered to. As long as we do the right thing, then the law and courts will be on our side.

I feel that people with grappling experience would be better suited for this organisation. Being able restrain them as opposed to throwing down is a better answer to stopping them and holding them for the police. I think this will reduce the chance of serious injury to everyone. The getting injured aspect is a real issue, and wanting to retaliate is a concern, I agree. It comes down to the right personalities and a clear code of practice. We can't be seen to seek revenge, that will simply undermine what we are trying to achieve and expose us to prosecution.

Although cracking skulls is something I would like to do as well, we can't. And it's not the right way to lead by example. You can't meet violence with violence, but we can render them powerless with grappling and restraint.

Thanks

CX
8/31/09 11:02 AM
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Charles Xavier
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Hi guys,

LOL, yes Alex, that's kind of the gist of it, but there will be conditions. And yes, I do envision a uniform of type and 2 way radios.

Thanks

CX
8/31/09 10:44 PM
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BenBJJ
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Im surprised we havnt heard anything about the probs in Melb up here.

While well intentioned, I dont think this will get off the ground.

Its one thing for a few to put their hands up for this sort of thing. In reality, most are too apathetic and would rather go out and have a good time rather than increase the possiblity that they themselves will get injured or arrested.

Too much to lose and not so much to gain.
9/1/09 1:02 AM
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Sniffy
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http://www.subzeroblue.com/images/classifiedadbacktofuture.jpg
9/2/09 8:03 PM
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byron2001
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Should go after this bloke (some karate fag)...

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,26019203-2862,00.html

(Video Included)
9/3/09 8:12 PM
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XFC
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Xtreme Fighting Championship
you guys could be the

Pulled GUARDian Angels or the butterfly GUARDian Angels???

Justin
9/3/09 8:52 PM
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BenBJJ
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Ha! Just gave me the image of 5 thugs picking on 3 guys and then the heros arrive and simultaniously buttflop in a threatening manner, warning said thugs to leave...
9/3/09 9:08 PM
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byron2001
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lol...whilst also wearing Red or Camo Gi's...
9/3/09 9:20 PM
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BenBJJ
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Edited: 09/03/09 9:19 PM
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and berets.
9/4/09 12:21 AM
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blakGSR
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or bandannas.
9/4/09 12:27 AM
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Charles Xavier
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Hi Guys,

LOl at you guys, perhaps the Gwardian angels. Think that name has been used and has some bad baggage with it. Berets...they'll just fall off.

Ben, I would expect if we butt flopped that the guys ask if we have worms or something.
Regarding you previous post, the violence down here is getting pretty bad. Every weekend you read about people being put in hospital or dying. It seems a sad reality but people are too lazy to do anything that isn't directly serving them with immediate gratification. And that's why we have the problems we do now.

People are too short sighted and can't see how small actions change and shape a society. With no one standing up in unison to these thugs, it only gets worse. Instead everyones to worried about what they will lose, rather than what they will gain.

With the too much to risk and little to gain. I don't know, but for me knowing that you are making a difference and contributing to stop a serious problem is enough for me. Having the feeling of being able to go out at night and not have to worry if I'm gonna get rolled by 8 guys, it's worth it. And knowing that I maybe able to help someone from being seriously injured, is worth it as well. Although I'm at a point in my life where I don't go out a hell of a lot, so my personal risk is very low. I have spare time and nights to go out and do this sort of thing. Unlike you who loves a beer and chasing skirt ;)

For me, there has been many times where I've heard about someone getting hurt and you wish, just once, that you could have been there to help some poor guy that got absolutely destroyed by a pack of cowards. Well this is our chance. Put it this way, if you were out and about and saw someone that needed assistance, wouldn't you lend a hand? Well this is the same thing, but organised.

I was hoping that there may have been a few guys out there with the same idea. Even if it's not people on this forum, but if the word gets out, then perhaps it may take off.

I wait and wonder.

CX

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