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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> Did I play this right?


9/8/09 1:32 PM
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baptistmo
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First live table ever, I am fairly new to poker. sit at a 1/2 NL table. So I play around a few hands, get used to the table, etc. Anyway, was delt K4 suited. I limped in with 2, as do two others. K45 fainbow was the flop. first guy checks, next guy bets 35. I call, figuring he has the K. other guy calls as well. Turn is 10 spades. first checks then next guy bets 60, which pushes me all in. No problem I figure I have him with two pair. Not worried about the other guy as he keeps checking, but he calls as well. River is an Ace. First guy checks again, other guy checks. We all show cards. I was right, the one guy had KJ, I show K4, the other guys shows A5. So i lose to A5.

My question is, should I have went all in when K4 was flopped or did I play it right and just get a bad beat?
9/8/09 1:53 PM
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joe canada
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So if I understand you right, there is $8 in the pot preflop (am assuming the blinds came along as part of the four players) ahe second to act on the flop bets out $35?

Wow.

Ok. So you just call, and someone overcalls this massive flop overbet. Fair enough. Now there's $113 in the pot and someone bets $60, which is as much or more than you have back. And you get overcalled.

River there is no action, as you're in on the turn anyways.

Did you play this right? Short version: No.

Preflop:

You have no more than 50 Big blinds coming into this hand ($2 + $35 + no more than $60 = $100). K4suited is a throwaway hand with that stack. Actually, it's a throwaway hand with almost any reasonable stack size in a cash game, but that's beside the point). You also limped it in fairly early position, so no points for position play. Finally, if you are going to play rags, raise them and pretend they are real cards.

Flop:

Guy massively overbets this pot. You have top and bottom. There is an argument for shoving here, as you have only three times the money he has just bet, but calling is not a bad move if you are looking for more action.

Turn:

If that turn scares you, stop playing poker. I beat him into the pot with this hand and if he has better he can have my money.

River: Irrelevant, you have no action here.

By the way: "Not worried about the other guy, as he keeps checking". Really? Not worried about a guy who checks and then overcalls a massive overbet on the flop? My alarm bells are going off a this point, why aren't yours?

You didn't get a bad beat by the standard definition. If you misplay a hand (as it seems to me you did right from the get go), you can't call bad beat. Also, you are in with two players and the following cards beat you:

Flop:
3 jacks
2 fives
3 aces

Turn:
all of the above + 3 tens

That is way too many outs to cry bad beat.

Sorry if I sound like a d!ck, but you did ask. You misplayed this hand from the moment you looked at K4 and thought it was a playable hand with 50 big blinds.
9/8/09 2:09 PM
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baptistmo
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no, this is what I need. I appreciate the critique. Like I said I am fairly new. It was very hard for me to process all of that at a live table, vs. being at home playing on full tilt or pokerstars.

Thanks again for the breakdown. I felt like a dumbass before, now I really do. lol
9/8/09 2:12 PM
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baptistmo
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I will stick to playing high suited and pairs, with the occasional high off suited based on position.
9/8/09 2:41 PM
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joe canada
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50BB = a hand you have to be ready to go broke with once you see the flop.

That means high cards and pairs only.
9/8/09 3:41 PM
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baptistmo
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thanks joe. it's much appreciated.
9/8/09 4:47 PM
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StillNoTop10wins
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joe canada - Also, you are in with two players and the following cards beat you:

Flop:
3 jacks
2 fives
3 aces

Turn:
all of the above + 3 tens

 I'm very confused as to what you are talking about here.  On the flop he is beat by KK, 55, 44, and K5.  Gven that he has a K and a 4, KK and 44 are very unlikely.  Also, the guy shouldn't have limped with KK preflop, and I don't understand the shove for 4 times the pot with trips.

Are you certain that he bet $35 into an $8 pot?  That sounds like facebook poker to me.  While you played it bad, the other two players played it far worse (given what you stated).
9/8/09 4:59 PM
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StillNoTop10wins
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baptistmo - I will stick to playing high suited and pairs, with the occasional high off suited based on position.

 I'm not the best to give advice because I play most cards, but suited vs non-suited isn't THAT big of a deal.  AKo > AQs.  It seems that new players get vary enamored by suited cards.  They also get enamored by having a high card or two face cards which is often the worst position to be in.

K4 is a particularly ugly hand, particularly if the pot had been raised (i realize it hadn't here).  This is because people raise with hands that are likely to have you dominated.  For instance, preflop K4 would have a 24% chance of beating AK.  However, that is optimistic, as you might not hit a 4 on the flop, and even if you do, it is difficult to know whether it is any good (bottom pair).  By contrast, 87suited has a 40.5% chance of beating AK heads up.  If all 3 of these hands are in play, the percentages are like so:

AK - 45%
87s - 41% (if offsuit this falls to 36%)
K4 - 14%
9/8/09 5:01 PM
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StillNoTop10wins
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 BTW, you can get pokerstove for free which will give you a better idea of percentages:

http://www.pokerstove.com/download/
9/8/09 5:01 PM
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joe canada
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No, I meant those cards can improve his opponents' ACTUAL HOLDINGS if they come. Yes he is already beat by all the holdings you mention (and also AA) but that's not what I mean.

On the flop, the first bunch of cards can come on the turn or river, and when the turn comes all those cards, plus the 3 tens, can come on the river to beat him. I'm referring to what his opponents actually hold, not their range. Sorry if that wasn;t clear.

My point is that it's not a bad beat when you're on the flop and 8 cards can come on the turn or river and 11 cards can fall on the river that kill you.
9/8/09 5:31 PM
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StillNoTop10wins
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 Ok, I see what you were saying.  


He did have Aces beat on the flop and turn though..
9/8/09 8:45 PM
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joe canada
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Oops. Sorry, I was thinking about the KK hand on another thread. I stand corrected on my attempted correction :D
9/9/09 10:39 AM
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baptistmo
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StillNoTop10wins - 
joe canada - Also, you are in with two players and the following cards beat you:

Flop:
3 jacks
2 fives
3 aces

Turn:
all of the above + 3 tens

 I'm very confused as to what you are talking about here.  On the flop he is beat by KK, 55, 44, and K5.  Gven that he has a K and a 4, KK and 44 are very unlikely.  Also, the guy shouldn't have limped with KK preflop, and I don't understand the shove for 4 times the pot with trips.

Are you certain that he bet $35 into an $8 pot?  That sounds like facebook poker to me.  While you played it bad, the other two players played it far worse (given what you stated).



Yes, the numbers are true.
10/13/09 2:49 AM
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WrestlingSucks
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If your bank roll is tiny, when you're best it's time to shove when the pot was raised to 35 bucks. I see that as a shove or fold moment.

If the other two were in late position, they are probably not limping with a pair so you have to assume you're best with two pair on the flop.

With two players limping you have to be worried about some crazy draw though. If one of them has 67 offsuit, he's going to creep along as cheaply as he can. If there is a bet, followed by your brutal all-in shove. He's way less likely to stay in the hand. A10 guy is definitely not staying in the hand if you shove and if he already called the 36 dollar bet, the pot is already built up enough to be satisfied with taking it down right then and there, IMO

A10 guy is a huge gambler there to call that huge bet with one more to act behind him.
10/13/09 11:49 AM
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andre
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joe canada - 50BB = a hand you have to be ready to go broke with once you see the flop.

That means high cards and pairs only.


I think this is the real answer to your question. You dont have to look any further than this, imo.
10/20/09 4:52 PM
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baptistmo
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I have taken everyone's advice and have played much better. I also have taught myself to fold a little more than I used to. It's really paid off at the 1/2 tables.
10/21/09 7:39 PM
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PR
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baptistmo - I have taken everyone's advice and have played much better. I also have taught myself to fold a little more than I used to. It's really paid off at the 1/2 tables.


Thats great to hear

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