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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> This is still bugging me


9/14/09 11:06 AM
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andre
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This is from the Commerce tournament I played in last week. Is there any reasonable way I could have avoided busting out on this hand, short of laying it down immediately after he called my raise?

"I busted out about four hours into it. We started with 3000 in chips.

I started out having my QQ cracked by a guy with A-10 who hit a 10 on the flop and another on the river. I built my stack back from that and was alternating chip leader at my table with another guy. I took a couple of hits to my stack and then:

I'm in seat 7. Seat 9 is a loose, aggressive player who survived several all ins with the worst of it and managed to suck out on the river each time. If he hit anything, even bottom pair on the flop, he was in to the end. Anyway, he limps from UTG and everyone but the button folds. Im in the small blind with 10-9 offsuit and I just complete the bet.

The flop comes 10-10-6 rainbow. I check, BB checks, seat 9 raises to 800. I put him on a 6 because I figured he would check a 10 and definitely bet the 6. I also considered that he might have a pocket pair smaller than 10. The button folds and I raise him to 2400, about half of my stack. He hesitates, then shoves. I figure Im committed at this point, plus Im playing a guy Ive seen shove with crap, so I call.

He turns over J-10. His kicker holds up.

I'm sure I screwed this hand up, but Im not sure where I went wrong. Would any of you have laid it down? "
9/15/09 1:43 AM
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kikenyoy
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You said you saw him shove with crap. Would he shove with a 6 or pocket pair here? If so then you crush about 95% of his range. Why do you think you could have folded...because this was one of the tiny percentage of times where you were behind?

Unless you're good enough to throw out the numbers and just soul-read the guy like PR does then I think you have to call.
9/15/09 9:39 AM
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TitoIsBACK
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Let it go man. You did the right thing against that guy. No way you can fold in that situation against him...you just can't put him on a 10 in that spot. Unfortunately, it often seems good players get knocked out by horrible players who finally have a good hand after having crap the rest of the tournament and getting lucky. There aren't many people who would fold there to that particular person, so you did nothing wrong IMO.
9/15/09 12:11 PM
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Rock n Raleigh Suicide
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you need to quit being such a donk.
9/16/09 6:01 PM
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alley
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How many OG forums are you gonna spam with this? Here's my two cents:

I say there is no way to get away from that hand, especially against a LAG. If you lose that hand, that's poker...

But I think the flop raise to $2400 was too much - not because it committed you, but because it would have chased away hands that you want to stay. Normally, you're way ahead in this hand, and so you don't want to chase away this opponent (and if you are ahead, his chance of drawing out on you is very small).

Suppose the villain had 8-8 or 7-7, or A-6, etc. Your giant flop raise alerts him to the fact that he is likely behind, and lets him lay down his hand. You don't want to make his decisions easy. A raise to $1600, on the other hand, would probably be called. Then you still have 2 more streets to get the rest of the money in.
9/16/09 7:17 PM
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andre
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lol@spam. I posted it here first, but there were few responses so I posted it on the OG, as well.

Thanks for the feedback. Honestly, because of the stack sizes I would have been happy if he had folded with any pocket pair. If he had A-6, I would have lost some value, but there was also a chance, based on how I'd seen him play that day, that he would call even with A-6 (or any 6)
9/16/09 7:38 PM
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StillNoTop10wins
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 This is the 2nd time in as many days that you failed to fold Trip 10s.  What a donkey.
9/18/09 3:53 AM
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JesseTheRonin
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I played this tournament also... such a donkfest.

FWIW i think that with the starting stacks in this tournament it woulda have been near impossible to fold a hand like this.

How many chips did you start the hand with? and how many did he have?
9/18/09 12:47 PM
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andre
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Jesse,

I had about 5500 in chips. He had me covered, but just barely.

How far did you get?
9/18/09 1:00 PM
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JesseTheRonin
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Edited: 09/18/09 1:00 PM
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i got into town real late on day 1, when i sat down i had like an 8 BB stack lol.. alternate like 350.. busted after like 10 minutes shoving K10ss from btn into AA on the big.

Registered for day2 right after so i had a fresh start, made it down to like 350 players on day 2, busted after calling the only guy shorter than me allin with 99, he has QQ obv. i move tables and just go all in blind, i have 72off, no lie.

So i just decided to not play day 3. Wasnt real excited with the structure of that tourny, but the prize pool was too juicy to pass up..
Ended up playing a ton of O8 and holdem 4/8 with full kill, and eventually some 8/16, and it totally made my trip worthwhile.. Was my first time playing at Commerce and i think im still in love.. Def will go back soon.

Oh, and in a bizzilion years i would have never laid your hand down at that point in the tourny.. Sucks to be on the wrong end of a cooler, but with those stacks and blinds i think you did nothing wrong.
11/14/09 8:11 PM
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flemsnopes
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My favorite response comes from Harrington's book, where he hears guys bragging about laying down trips because they "knew" the other guy hit a better set, smiles politely, and thinks "idiot."

If one of the tightest players in the game thinks you're supposed to go broke in a situation like that, you're probably supposed to go broke.
11/15/09 4:21 PM
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andre
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Thanks, flem...:)

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