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MMA Photography UnderGround >> Need A Photographer In Portland Oregon ASAP!


10/1/09 6:12 PM
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Graffight
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Member Since: 12/26/08
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Graffight, C.E.O.
 
I need to find someone willing to do a shoot as soon as possible in Portland Oregon with a very prominant fighter. I can't pay you but adding this shoot to your portfolio will definitely be a huge deal. Let me know ASAP.
10/8/09 3:52 AM
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Bunnymonster
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Edited: 10/08/09 3:53 AM
Member Since: 7/14/03
Posts: 2245
 
I'm not in Portland Oregon, but if I were, Harlan Ellison would sum up my response perfectly...
  
10/15/09 6:43 PM
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RickStorm
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 Hey Graffight, did you find your photographer? PM me if you havent.
11/24/09 3:57 PM
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SnapLocally
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It's dead fucking on, too. TapouT tried that free work shit with my photography; the Brad Imes gogoplata pic in particular. I did get paid, but it took negotiating and in hindsight I settled for far less than I should've.

I'm done giving out any valuable photography advice, too. It just gets used by rank amateurs who make me look like an asshole when I tried to get paid for my work.

And to the original poster- no, that kind of  portfolio only works to get more fight photography gigs. And you know what? I guaran-goddamn-tee that a "photographer" who's never shot MMA will only provide shit for shots anyhow. Those shots ain't going into anyones "resume". And even if they did, who's going to hire them if you're not?
11/25/09 1:40 PM
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Graffight
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Graffight, C.E.O.
That video is awesome and it's true, unfortunately not everyone is able to break into whatever business they want to on their own terms like all of you apparently have. If people became succesfull in whatever business or field they were trying to break into right off the bat then talk show hosts and presidents would have to hit the redlight district to get laid because INTERNS wouldn't exist.

I did my fair share of writing articles and interviews for websites for free coming up in this industry and I'd absolutely do it again The connections, friendships, and advice from people already successfull in this business has been invaluable to me and lasted much longer then a few hundred bucks ever would have. I never would have been in a position to acquire that knowledge had I not initially worked for free. I worked for free because the experience, relationship, and ability to have an interview with a top tier fighter on my resume was just as good as monetary compensation and lasted much longer. That philosophy has now put me in a position to write about the sport I love and get paid for it, had I not done some work for free initially I'd probably be broke with a ton of awesome articles ready to be published that would never get read.
11/26/09 11:36 AM
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cluster
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Graffight - That video is awesome and it's true, unfortunately not everyone is able to break into whatever business they want to on their own terms like all of you apparently have.


There's a fairly substantial difference between _asking_ to work for free and _being asked_ to work for free.
11/27/09 8:08 PM
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Graffight
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Graffight, C.E.O.
cluster - 
Graffight - That video is awesome and it's true, unfortunately not everyone is able to break into whatever business they want to on their own terms like all of you apparently have.


There's a fairly substantial difference between _asking_ to work for free and _being asked_ to work for free.
 
Again I agree, no one asked me if I could provide them an opportunity to photograph a fighter to add to their portfolio, mostly because there was no way for them to know that I required that. This thread was to advise anyone interested, that the opportunity was there and if they wanted to do the work that it would have to be for free, thus providing the opportunity for someone interested to contact me and offer there services knowing full well the peramiters.
11/28/09 12:22 AM
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SnapLocally
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Interns are compensated by the education and hands on experience  under those with EXPERIENCE in their respective field. As you've already stated, you're not a photographer, you're a writer. 

And for you aspiring photographers out there- gigs like this ain't gonna amount to shit, period. If you want to come off like a mark and  base your portfolio on a "look who I got to take pictures of" proposition, that's fine, but don't expect anyone to look beyond the pictures and mistake you for a photojournalist.

Graffight, there's no shame in working for free when you're paying your dues. I have, and still do  a lot of shit for no compensation. The difference here however is yes, I do it on my own terms. There's a mutual trade-off when I cover an event- for them it's exposure, and for me it's potential sales. But there's no way in hell I'm walking into a room knowing that I'm to give away everything with zero chance for making anything. To put it another way, if someone expects something for free with conditions attached as with photography, it's because it has value. Either expect that "anyone with a Kodak could've taken this bullshit" look, or open your checkbook.
11/30/09 7:07 PM
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Graffight
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Edited: 12/03/09 10:59 AM
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Graffight, C.E.O.
SnapLocally - Interns are compensated by the education and hands on experience  under those with EXPERIENCE in their respective field. As you've already stated, you're not a photographer, you're a writer. 

And for you aspiring photographers out there- gigs like this ain't gonna amount to shit, period. If you want to come off like a mark and  base your portfolio on a "look who I got to take pictures of" proposition, that's fine, but don't expect anyone to look beyond the pictures and mistake you for a photojournalist.

Graffight, there's no shame in working for free when you're paying your dues. I have, and still do  a lot of shit for no compensation. The difference here however is yes, I do it on my own terms. There's a mutual trade-off when I cover an event- for them it's exposure, and for me it's potential sales. But there's no way in hell I'm walking into a room knowing that I'm to give away everything with zero chance for making anything. To put it another way, if someone expects something for free with conditions attached as with photography, it's because it has value. Either expect that "anyone with a Kodak could've taken this bullshit" look, or open your checkbook.
Correct, interns are compensated by the education and expierience they gain while working for free in a field that they plan to enter upon completion of their education, my request was simply a one that would provide the same benefit that an internship provides, to someone without any connections, internship possibilities, or relationship with someone in their chosen profession, this was an opportunity for someone to access that world. As I stated previously, to some people that opportunity may have its own value. Also I never said that the shoot was in conjunction with a story I was writing so your comments as they pertaint to photo-journalism or me using the pictures to hold myself out as one are not relevant here.

I respect the fact that you've been able to do what your doing on your own terms, that is truly commendable almost as much as  your statement that you still do pro bono photography work even with such steadfast principles in regards to compensation. That is even more comendable since both of your statements by nature contradict eachother.

It seems more like your qualm is with the fact that you know someone would absolutely see the value in this opportunity and it would in fact add value to any photographers portfolio who is attempting to take up arms next to you cageside. Your issue seems to be one of indiferance due to the fact that someone is going to do this work, do it for free, and an opportunity to get paid is being taken away from you in the process, basically you don't like being undercut.

I in fact do know that an opportunity like this absolutely helps people looking for an opportunity to break into the business, just ask my last photographer. He did an entire photoshoot for Graffight first for free, this gave him the opportunity to shoot Jamie Varner, Ryan Bader, and C.B. Dollaway. That lead to an opportunity to travel to UFC100 Fan Expo, which in turn lead to IMMAE and so on and so on. What relevance does this have? Well when I met him he was taking pictures for Lifetouch, you know the company who does grammar school picture day, now he's doing cageside shots at the WEC and Strikeforce, he's also become one of the official photogs for a pretty big website and these were all paying jobs.
  
12/11/09 1:08 PM
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SnapLocally
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 interns are compensated by the education and expierience they gain while working for free in a field that they plan to enter upon completion of their education, my request was simply a one that would provide the same benefit that an internship provides, to someone without any connections, internship possibilities, or relationship with someone in their chosen profession, this was an opportunity for someone to access that world 

"Upon completion of their education". You aren't educating anyone. And "access to that world" isn't all that difficult.

I respect the fact that you've been able to do what your doing on your own terms, that is truly commendable almost as much as your statement that you still do pro bono photography work even with such steadfast principles in regards to compensation. That is even more comendable since both of your statements by nature contradict eachother. 

I don't do "pro bono" work, so no contradiction was made. I said "I do a lot of shit for no compensation", which is true- the vast majority of events I shoot I'm not guaranteed to make anything; I sell my work when there are buyers. If I don't make sales, I don't get paid. "Pro bono" and "not getting paid" are not mutually exclusive concepts.

It seems more like your qualm is with the fact that you know someone would absolutely see the value in this opportunity and it would in fact add value to any photographers portfolio who is attempting to take up arms next to you cageside. Your issue seems to be one of indiferance due to the fact that someone is going to do this work, do it for free, and an opportunity to get paid is being taken away from you in the process, basically you don't like being undercut.

My premise is pretty fucking simple, and doesn't take any any further analysis of semantics: If you're so successful, and everyone around you is successful, then pay the fucking photographer. It's a bullshit proposition that you want a professional service, yet all you can offer is "I can introduce you to famous people".

As far as my supposed fear of being undercut, think again. I've shot 25 events this year, and only one of them was an MMA event, and I'm not being undercut by anyone. I work side by side with photographers on assignment all the time. And of those that give their work away, I let them know it's bad for business- it's bad for them because there's no going back. They're not going to affect my bottom line, because I take far more pride in my work and pay far more attention to detail than someone who's sole purpose was getting a free seat at a show. But for the industry as a whole, especially when that gap closes and two guys work are real close in quality as they tend to be at the novice level, that free shit is going to prevent the next guy from making a living.

I in fact do know that an opportunity like this absolutely helps people looking for an opportunity to break into the business, just ask my last photographer. He did an entire photoshoot for Graffight first for free, this gave him the opportunity to shoot Jamie Varner, Ryan Bader, and C.B. Dollaway. That lead to an opportunity to travel to UFC100 Fan Expo, which in turn lead to IMMAE and so on and so on. What relevance does this have? Well when I met him he was taking pictures for Lifetouch, you know the company who does grammar school picture day, now he's doing cageside shots at the WEC and Strikeforce, he's also become one of the official photogs for a pretty big website and these were all paying jobs.

I guarantee this is the exception rather than the rule. That said, he's fortunate enough to be in a market where there's this kind of demand. Also, let's be honest- "paying jobs" aren't all equal, regardless of venue or company. I've spoken with more than one photographer that's shot a UFC event and was stunned how little their pay was. One guy was even given the opportunity and didn't make shit. Conversely, I've had $400, $500, $700 paydays on events I wasn't hired for at all; I got myself permission to shoot, and arranged the sales myself, and Minnesota is a shit market for MMA and boxing. This regional market was barely even noticed by magazines save for the few times I've been published, and websites really don't give a flying fuck what happens down at the local bingo hall. 

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