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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> Had a Matusow blow up. I really should quit poker.


10/6/09 11:20 AM
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andre
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O.k., some background. 10-8 is a sentimental favorite hand in cash games. I do not remember a time I lost with it, even though I realize that it isnt a typically strong starting hand.

So Ive been playing a lot of cash, but yesterday decided to play in a tournament at Hustler. I really play my best poker and go into the final table as the overwhelming chip leader. The tournament was only paying 3 spots, and based on the stack sizes, I could have probably cruised to the cash...which I mostly did.

But there was one player who raised my blind every single time and I wasnt able to defend it. He was running hot and knocked out a couple of players, eventually leaving only 5 of us. His stack grew to about the size of mine.

So here is where I screw up. Every time he raised preflop, he showed his hand: A-J, QQ, A-10...The raises were substantial - 6 to 7 times the big blind. So he's under the gun and limps in. One other player limps, and I make the mistake of limping on the button with 10-8 suited. That was mistake number one: I fell in love with my hand due to my success in cash games with it.

The blinds limp in and the flop comes 10-6-2 rainbow. UTG bets $10,000 (he has about 60,000 in chips, I have about 65,000). Middle position folds.

For some reason, I put him on two overs. I figured he would check a set, and would have raised preflop with any big pair, unless it was aces or kings and he was hoping to make a big reraise. Here is where I made my crucial error: I shoved. There was no reason for it. I played so well, but now I was trying to burn the guy who stole my blinds several times...and at a point where I was just about guaranteed to cash if I just played it cool.

He almost laid it down because he was convinced I hit a set, but he called and turned over pocket jacks.

You dont even have to correct me. I made every mistake in the book on this hand and it disgusts me.
10/6/09 11:35 AM
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andre
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The best part is that I played for 5 hours to get to that point, only to miss the cash based on pure stupidity. I cant tell you how ridiculous I felt.
10/6/09 3:10 PM
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JCT
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You need to stay away from 10s lol.

What were the blinds at the time? What were the stacks of the other players like? Depending on how deep you were, I don't think over limping 10-8 on the button is that bad. If the pot was 5 handed, and his 10000 bet was pot sized, then that would mean the blinds were 1k/2k if there are no antes.
10/6/09 3:22 PM
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andre
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The blinds were at 800/1600. 200 antes.

I think it was a mistake for me to even get involved in the hand for no reason. It was strictly because I was in love with 10-8. I should have recognized the fact that his limp UTG represented strength not weakness. :(
10/6/09 7:16 PM
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WrestlingSucks
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I suck in tournaments for similar reasons. I'll play as well as I could every play and then when it matters most I catch myself in a hand that I was trying to get cute with and crush myself.
10/8/09 3:01 AM
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Ze Dano
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I took the title to mean you actually snapped and yelled and stomped around..I guess you mean you did an impulse shove without taking a deep breath and thinking it through?

Dude...your 10-8 is my 9-6.
10/8/09 1:15 PM
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andre
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"I guess you mean you did an impulse shove without taking a deep breath and thinking it through?"

That's exactly what I mean. lol

Yeah, we all have these stupid hands we fall in love with. Arghh...it was a good, expensive, lesson I learned.
10/8/09 7:04 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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10-8 is utter garbage. Now J9 on the other hand is beautiful!
10/8/09 10:04 PM
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nhbMIKE
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i'm not sure if you realy played the hand bad or not but i will say that superstitions are very bad for your over all game. ldo.
10/9/09 5:45 AM
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PR
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Andre... I think you are a good player overall from what I read, but man you gotta change your frame of mind.

You are completely incorrect in your post-game analysis of the hand.

I'm not going to give what I think are the answers, but let's break down the topics for discussion:

1) Having favourite hands
2) "I make the mistake of limping on the button with 10-8 suited"
3) "Here is where I made my crucial error: I shoved. There was no reason for it. "
4) "and at a point where I was just about guaranteed to cash if I just played it cool."
10/9/09 8:01 AM
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TitoIsBACK
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Everyone has a favorite hand! Mine is 89 suited :)
10/9/09 12:17 PM
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andre
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PR,

Thanks, I really look forward to a discussion about this with you.

Here are my thoughts on each of the topics, but I really look forward to anything you are willing to contribute:

1) Having favourite hands - I guess what I mean is that I shouldnt have a sentimental favorite hand. It interferes with my judgement and is strictly based on superstition.

2) "I make the mistake of limping on the button with 10-8 suited" - What I meant was that, from a strategical point of view, I should have recognized that the other big stack was in the hand, from under the gun (which I should have seen as strength, despite his limp), with the small stacks. He could have easily eliminated one of them without any risk to my stack (aside from the relatively tiny $200 ante). I think that a marginal hand, even from the button, should be laid down at that point, or at least "played small" unless I flop a monster.

3) "Here is where I made my crucial error: I shoved. There was no reason for it. " - I maintain that I shouldnt have risked my tournament life on top pair with a weak kicker, no matter what my read was. Granted, there was a "reason" for it, but strategically I think it was the wrong play. Perhaps in cash I could justify it, but not in this situation.


4) "and at a point where I was just about guaranteed to cash if I just played it cool." - What I mean is that I should have only been involved in hands with the small stacks and that I should have avoided a war with the big stack at that point. Once we elminated the small stacks I could go heads up for first since we had similar stacks, but until then I should have avoided anything that could potentially cost me my tournament life.

Thanks for engaging me on this.
10/11/09 4:40 AM
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wreckker
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 I played crappy at a final table myself today..

The shove is bad..

10,000 sounds like a overbet to the pot.

Its a tricky spot HU with active player...I wouldnt like that overbet of 10k too much.

with 10-8 suited u were looking for a bigger flop than 10 high basically.

Problem with 10-8 there is people limp  with j10 suited q10 suited u are beat by any ten basically

questiuon is what is that guy overbetting and can 10-8 possibly be good with that kind of bet from that player?

I played a hnd bad myself today maybe 2-3 in my best game plo8 small tourney but still 3k diff between 1st and 5th ...remember and learn not to make same mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GL

10/12/09 1:16 PM
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andre
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I'm like a kid at Christmas time eagerly awaiting presents from PR. :)
10/12/09 7:52 PM
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PR
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1) you got it. I mean, everyone knows that just because we got lucky or unlucky with a certain hand previously - it doesn't change our luck now. But we are human, so it's still something we just have to look out for.

A classic example would be say we re-raise pre-flop with KK, and the other guy shove all-in. We have to be careful to separate our emotions ("aw fuck he has aces") from the information and rational decision making process. The common mistake is to interpret our emotional response ("aw fuck he has aces" as a READ on the player - when in fact it's only your brain and emotions reacting to negative feedback in the past which is based on the random distribution on the cards.

Like say you touch a stove-top 10 times and it's cold, but the 11th time you get burned. Well when you come back for the 12th touch, what happens? You dont think, "okay 10 out of the 11 times, the stove was not hot and I didnt not get burned. Therefore it's unlikely that I will get burned."

No, all you can think about is the burn you got last time.

2) Are you being results-oriented here? If the flop come T8x and you cracked his kings, would you have decided in hindsight that "I make the mistake of limping on the button with 10-8 suited"? People make just as many mistakes in hands they win as in hands they lose. But not many people analyse the hands they win. Often, in tournaments, the real mistakes in not the bust-out hand, but the play previous to it which put you into that spot. (Thats not necessarily the case in this particular spot, but just something to look out for in the future).

more to come later... have to go
10/12/09 8:05 PM
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LordSeano
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andre - The best part is that I played for 5 hours to get to that point, only to miss the cash based on pure stupidity. I cant tell you how ridiculous I felt.


Welcome to every time I play a tournament. I played two micro tournaments last weekend and final tabled both at the same time with about 3rd i chips in each one. If I won both it would have been about £1500 and my biggest win to date and I spazzed out in 10th place in both for a grand total of about £60

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