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Weapons UnderGround >> .357mag vs Deer (cross posted from hunting ground)


10/23/09 6:51 PM
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Buddhadev
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Hey Folks!

Anyone have experience hunting deer with a .357 mag carbine or lever action rifle? Googling around on the subject, the consensus seems to be that it can be done, but range is limited (some seem to say to 100 yds and others say to 50 yds).

I don't know really anything about hunting, so was wondering if limiting yourself to close ranges like that makes it too hard to bring home the bacon...err venison...when hunting deer. Is limiting yourself to short ranges just setting yourself up for failure? Thanks in advance!

Buddhadev
10/24/09 5:40 AM
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membrane
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Why not just use a .308 Winchester?
10/24/09 12:41 PM
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Buddhadev
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Edited: 10/24/09 5:01 PM
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membrane - Why not just use a .308 Winchester?


Want to be able to plink at the range with .38spl. out of the same gun--without doing a lot of work, using a conversion kit, etc..

So, my questions about hunting them with .357mag and my generalized question about hunting from short ranges...anyone?
10/25/09 6:01 AM
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Skpotamus
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Edited: 10/25/09 6:01 AM
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I haven't done it with a carbine, but in Indiana you could hunt for years with a 357 out of a 4" minimum barrel handgun. 50 yards was doable without a scope if you practice and have a steady shooting platform (I used a monopod to rest my hand on). Past that and the round would work quite well, but the shooter usually didn't.

Do a google search for Elmer Keith and Major Douglas Wesson (old hunting writers) who did a lot of 357 hunting back in the 30's and a bit later. Some of Wesson's kills with a 357 include:
Antelope - 200 yards (2 shots)
Elk - 130 yards (1 shot)
Moose - 100 yards (1 shot)
Grizzly Bear - 135 yards (1 shot)
All done with a 158 grain bullet from a 8 3/4 inch S&W. Sticking the rounds in a rifle, even a carbine should give you a nice boost in velocity and energy.

I recommend using buffalo ammunition ( http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=20 ) you're looking at ~800 ft lbs of energy. For comparison, rounds typically recommended for dropping dangerous animals (two legged ones) roughly the same size as a whitetail deer (~200lbs) is typically closer to 400 ft lbs of energy.

Personally, if I had a 357 marlin with an 18 or 20" barrel, and a few months to plink with it and get used to it, I wouldn't have a problem with taking a clear shot out to 100 yards.
10/25/09 12:07 PM
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Buddhadev
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Edited: 10/25/09 1:05 PM
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Thanks Skpotamus! Great info! I googled the Major's name and found that site: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm

I've had a fascination with lever rifles lately and reading this tells me that the flexibility of one chambered in .357mag would be a good choice.
10/25/09 11:12 PM
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Skpotamus
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You can actually take it a step farther and have the chambered reamed out by a gunsmith to 357 maximum dimensions, which gives you even more range and power, but still the ability to use the magnum and special cartridges. Essentially giving you 3 calibers in one.
10/26/09 12:03 AM
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Buddhadev
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^^^That sounds pretty cool, but a mite too adventurous for me. Plus, it looks like it's more of something that reloaders would go for since from a cursory google shopping search it looks like there's really only brass for it but not much in the way of loaded ammo.

Skpotamus, if no one's said so before, I want to thank you for being easily the most informative, objective, and helpful poster on this subforum! Your input is always thoughtful and backed up with well-explained logic and facts.

Your style is very much valued when on the internet so many are inclined to just have an emotional attachment to their viewpoints!
10/31/09 6:03 AM
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Skpotamus
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Buddhadev - ^^^That sounds pretty cool, but a mite too adventurous for me. Plus, it looks like it's more of something that reloaders would go for since from a cursory google shopping search it looks like there's really only brass for it but not much in the way of loaded ammo.

Skpotamus, if no one's said so before, I want to thank you for being easily the most informative, objective, and helpful poster on this subforum! Your input is always thoughtful and backed up with well-explained logic and facts.

Your style is very much valued when on the internet so many are inclined to just have an emotional attachment to their viewpoints!


I appreciate it. I like to think I'm a throwback to the original UG, back when there were like 100 members or so (round the time I joined) and it was a great place to share techniques and training ideas. Lotsa posts on techniques and drills, with zero flaming. Sigh... I miss the good ole days (and I'm not even 30 yet!!!!!)

The maximum is definitely a reloading thing, it was originally designed for Silhouette Shooters (guys who shoot pistols 200+ yards). It has great ballistics for hunting uses though.

Reloading is a fun hobby as well. If you liked to make models as a kid, think of these as really small models that explode. :)

don't fight it..... join the collective.... soon you'll be shooting just so you can reload! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
10/31/09 4:06 PM
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Buddhadev
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^^^My attempts at toy models always ended up looking like Homer Simpson's attempts at assembling furniture. I have a bad feeling that any round I hand load would end up breaking my gun.

Not even 30...damn I feel old (will hit 31 in January). I also remember the old days fondly. No, this isn't the same site anymore. Barely post-pubescent TUF n00bs have turned it into a mess of hormone-laden egos and goofy flame wars.

Apropos of your post, I've been reading this page: http://357maximum.com
11/2/09 11:14 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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Buddhadev - ^^^My attempts at toy models always ended up looking like Homer Simpson's attempts at assembling furniture. I have a bad feeling that any round I hand load would end up breaking my gun.

Not even 30...damn I feel old (will hit 31 in January). I also remember the old days fondly. No, this isn't the same site anymore. Barely post-pubescent TUF n00bs have turned it into a mess of hormone-laden egos and goofy flame wars.

Apropos of your post, I've been reading this page: http://357maximum.com


Guys.

I've been on here since 1998 and mousels since 1995... It's bad now, but it really hasn't been much better in the past.

Just different.
11/3/09 1:39 AM
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Buddhadev
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^^^Hey don't deprive an old man of nostalgic selective memories of a better past! ;-) I'm practicing my "in my day, youngin'..." voice!
11/4/09 8:45 AM
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Skpotamus
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Kai Tremeche - 
Buddhadev - ^^^My attempts at toy models always ended up looking like Homer Simpson's attempts at assembling furniture. I have a bad feeling that any round I hand load would end up breaking my gun.

Not even 30...damn I feel old (will hit 31 in January). I also remember the old days fondly. No, this isn't the same site anymore. Barely post-pubescent TUF n00bs have turned it into a mess of hormone-laden egos and goofy flame wars.

Apropos of your post, I've been reading this page: http://357maximum.com


Guys.

I've been on here since 1998 and mousels since 1995... It's bad now, but it really hasn't been much better in the past.

Just different.


I disagree man. Before there were sub-forums and a metric shit-ton of users there was no flaming tolerated. Trolls were banned and the biggest problem was when one of the early mods got pissy and deleted all the threads before he himself got banned. I'm thinking this was around 96 or 97 because it was before any of the guys in our group started fighting.

Of course, I used to walk up hill both ways to school then too.... with paper bags on my feet because we couldn't afford shoes! so my memory might be off a bit :oP
11/5/09 7:23 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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In my memory, things went downhill about 1 year after the OG was started.
11/6/09 4:35 AM
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Skpotamus
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that's probably the most accurate IMO.
1/31/10 7:18 AM
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Skpotamus
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Well, this thread about the 357 for deer made me think about getting one. I've always wanted a lever action, ever since my days as a kid watching john wayne and clint eastwood westerns. So, after a few months, off to my favorite gun shop to find a marlin lever action in 357. I brought my lucky charm for gun shopping, my wife. I know what you're thinking, "you take your wife out gun shopping?" She actually finds a lot of the things I was looking for and points them out to me quick. She actually talked me into getting a couple of guns that I wanted, but didn't want to spend the money on. Great woman!

So, they didn't have the marlin in 357 that I wanted. But they did have a "used" stainless 1894SS in 44 mag, stainless steel with a leather sling and 3-9x40 nikon prostaff scope. I looked the gun over and couldn't tell if it'd be fired. So a gun with a MSRP of $841.50 with a $179.99 scope, plus mounts, rings and a leather sling. Out the door for $599. The lucky charm strikes again!
1/31/10 8:58 AM
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Buddhadev
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^^^Does your wife have a sister? :-)
2/1/10 1:26 PM
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Skpotamus
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Ya know, I get asked that a lot :o)

Sorry to say, she does not.
2/5/10 8:05 PM
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BJJSavate
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I've wanted to take the Rossi Lever rifle that I mostly shoot .38 out of (for SASS competitions) and use it for deer season .357mag.

I haven't experimented with loading at home but wondered if it could be loaded "hot" for deer?
2/6/10 6:26 PM
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Skpotamus
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You could load up your own loads for deer if you wanted some really hot stuff (start off with light loads and incrementally increase your load in 0.1grain increments until you see signs of overpressure developing, or your accuracy goes to shit), but that wouldn't be necessary for any north american game (or a decent amount of african game). Major Douglas Wesson (a few posts up had his resume) killed grizzlies, moose, elk, water buffalo, etc with a 357 in a handgun with factory ammo. You get a velocity boost from the extra barrel length in your rifle to boot.

for comparison: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html shows that with an 18inch barrel, a 158 grain hydra shock gets 1700+fps.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=326 is federals numbers for the 158 gr hydra shock, they advertise a velocity of 1240fps,
So the round got a 500fps boost out of the rifle barrel. More than enough oomph to put down anything in north america if you do your part, and having competed in SASS, you're probably a pretty good shot.

If you want some pretty hot stuff, try the buffalo bore ammo. http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=20 is the heavy 357 loads, note that those velocities are their advertised handgun velocities.

Bottom line, no need to load your own hot, you can buy factory standard velocity stuff and kill deer pretty easily. So load up and have fun!
2/10/10 9:23 PM
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RobbieH
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Skpotamus - 
Buddhadev - ^^^That sounds pretty cool, but a mite too adventurous for me. Plus, it looks like it's more of something that reloaders would go for since from a cursory google shopping search it looks like there's really only brass for it but not much in the way of loaded ammo.

Skpotamus, if no one's said so before, I want to thank you for being easily the most informative, objective, and helpful poster on this subforum! Your input is always thoughtful and backed up with well-explained logic and facts.

Your style is very much valued when on the internet so many are inclined to just have an emotional attachment to their viewpoints!


I appreciate it. I like to think I'm a throwback to the original UG, back when there were like 100 members or so (round the time I joined) and it was a great place to share techniques and training ideas. Lotsa posts on techniques and drills, with zero flaming. Sigh... I miss the good ole days (and I'm not even 30 yet!!!!!)


lol +10000 Same here....

And good advice, I enjoy reading your posts...
 

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