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JKD UnderGround >> leg kicks in a self defense context


10/27/09 1:44 AM
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laqueus
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In a professional fight that has a long time limit, going past 20 minutes leg kicks can definitely take their toll. But in self defense you're probably not expecting to be fighting that long. How do things change there? How useful do they become, and how does their usefulness change?

My first thought is if someone isn't conditioned and you hit hard, 2 or 3 kicks to the thigh could have someone falling down and essentially finish the fight, with an added bonus of setting you up favourably in court since you're probably not going to cause any concussions that way.

How else could they be of benefit, or be a hindrance?
10/27/09 10:01 PM
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OneScoup
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Non kickboxers often get dropped by only a few leg kicks which they can't defend.
10/27/09 10:02 PM
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Gigantor
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Use the old 4th/5th grade tactic. Kick him as hard as you can, in the shin with he front of your shoe or boot.
10/28/09 12:56 AM
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Ideologic
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Agree with the shin kick. Or kneecap if it is serious self-defense. If you use a thai-style kick you can still target the knee instead of the thigh.

If you don't wanna do major damage then it seems like a good idea to target the thigh/sciatic nerve.

But, you have to take into account kicking with shoes on, I dunno if you practice that much or not but it makes a huge difference for me.

I tend to only use leg kicks with some kind of previous setup in sparring. I.E. making opponent flinch on the high-line or distracting them with punches or footwork. I would imagine that someone unfamiliar with these distractions would be more easily duped by them.

Even when playing the role of kickboxer it can be hard to defend leg kicks to the point of taking zero damage (no checking, footwork escapes only).

Just some stuff to think about.
10/28/09 1:39 AM
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BEEF & CHEESE
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Of limited value imo. Hands are way more important.
10/28/09 5:52 AM
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BigSifu
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You can plan and plan but the fight will take on a mind of it's own. The last scrap I was in I relied on headbutts and grappling...
10/28/09 1:04 PM
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shoe
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have seen 2 people dropped with single thai kicks, one of them was an amateur boxer...just be ready to follow up if they don't fold, but then that's always the case isn't it?
10/30/09 6:02 AM
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Skpotamus
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I kicked a guy in a street fight once. He wanted to square off and brawl outside of my fraternity house. I hit him with a leg kick, which half turned him around, then choked him.
10/31/09 3:28 PM
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HEMAN
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"But in self defense you're probably not expecting to be fighting that long. How do things change there? How useful do they become, and how does their usefulness change?"

I threw the basic muy thai roundhouse kick at someone thigh at a night club. It didn't drop him..he backed away..I didn't see him cringe in pain..I just think when your opponent FEELs that you know KARATE/KUNG FU..then it may/may not cause them to back down.
10/31/09 6:51 PM
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laqueus
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That's an interesting thought. I guess there's no predicting how someone would react but given that they can work to some degree against someone who's not going to back down at all, it doesn't hurt to see if they will.
11/1/09 9:16 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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Against a Novice. Blast them with a single hard one... See if they react.

They should bring down their hands on the second one.
11/2/09 11:12 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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I found people will always drop their hands on the second one, send a cross down the pipe and it's over.
11/3/09 2:24 AM
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keseki
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Edited: 11/04/09 7:48 AM
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I wouldn't doubt that there is a youtube of it somewhere.
11/4/09 5:57 PM
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Wet
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Leg kick? No
11/5/09 1:41 PM
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Luigipe
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Leg kicks with high guard,may be the best front and side kick before escpae the bad situation in the street, but always be careful to avoid the ground fighting in the street
11/6/09 4:18 AM
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laqueus
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I always find comments about avoiding ground fighting silly. You want to avoid any aspect of a fight period, if you can't avoid it you want to do whatever gets you out of it as quick as possible.
11/9/09 10:15 PM
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HEMAN
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Just to comment about the one situation I was in. After the kick...the guy step back like 20 feet and just pose. The bouncers came and we all scrambled. I honestly do not know what I would do if he came back...prob. go for a double since that has been my instinctive reaction for over 30 years. What I did notice is that after the altercation...some people were asking me if I knew karate...maybe that is what he thought? Either way...win for me and him...neither got hurt...and hopefully he feels the same...
11/25/09 1:24 AM
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BJJStudent
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Edited: 11/25/09 1:24 AM
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I used to not like kicks, but when I spar it can really open up things by using them. Not sure in self-defense context, but I know from experience walking into a teep kick can take it out of you.
11/25/09 1:16 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Leg kicks are good - just remember, you're standing on one leg, and if you miss, you can spin past and expose your back. Don't telegraph - i.e. don't 'probe kick' and alert your opponent to your ability. Also, don't try them if you haven't done them consistently in sparring against a resisting opponent. Bag and pad work are nice but you don't get timing and footwork.

11/26/09 8:27 PM
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cuzz63
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Similar thread on the main forum awhile back. I once was crossing through a parking lot outside of a club and a guy stepped forward threatening with a knife. I didnt even hesitate and threw the hardest leg kick I could and dropped the guy on the ground and ran past. I looked back and saw the guy still on the ground moaning and holding his leg.
12/12/09 10:37 AM
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Boyscout
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The thing is you have to kick really hard. I have been using a very basic boot kick game for the ten years or so. I just kept working the basic Savate kicks.

The last time I went to a jkd workshop we did some Savate on shin pads and thai kicks on Muay thai pads at the same time. I threw a couple of kicks and the whole workshop went silent and everbody stopped to watch. More than a little embarrassing.

I would recommend having a few basic boot kicks in your stand up game, add them into your boxing or CM stand up and before long your sparring partners will start stopping abruptly mid sparring session.

If I can do it, anybody can!
12/12/09 1:32 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Boyscout -
...
I would recommend having a few basic boot kicks in your stand up game, add them into your boxing or CM stand up and before long your sparring partners will start stopping abruptly mid sparring session.

If I can do it, anybody can!
Boot kicks, kicking with the toes or pad of the foot, toes curled back are under appreciated. If you do a roundhouse, but make your foot like a 'blade', (like an old style sidekick foot blade) you can pop your opponent in the ribs and double him over.

I did a quick skip kick like this one time sparring - my  partner was wearing one of those old syle TKD chest protectors, with the bamboo ribbing. Well the pad of my right foot went right between the bamboo slats. A little harder and the fight would have been over. But, a basic roundhouse, even a hard one wouldn't usually be felt with those things on. We were also wearing foot pads, but those only covered the top of foot and heel.


 
12/18/09 9:44 AM
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TylerJamesMead
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shoe kick to groin on retraction turn it into a female 45 degree step for a hard leg kick with other leg. old school VU style
1/4/10 4:54 PM
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knocka
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laqueus - I always find comments about avoiding ground fighting silly. You want to avoid any aspect of a fight period, if you can't avoid it you want to do whatever gets you out of it as quick as possible.

 good point.
1/7/10 11:42 AM
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Seul
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leg kicks are fantastic from a self-defense standpoint (imo).

It's really hard to block a hard leg kick if you've never spent much time learning how, and most people (those who haven't felt the exquisite agony of getting your leg chopped at by a really painful kick) can't really conceive of how painful it might be, the the unexpectedness of it can dramatically add to how much people react to it.

If you're by yourself (or against unfavorable odds), something like this that will momentarily stun someone AND slow their running speed (should they try to pursue you) can count for quite a bit if you start hauling ass to get away.

As mentioned before, it's also a great way to get people afraid of you and to open up their faces.

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