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TMA UnderGround >> Shotokan is for pussies.


12/5/09 11:42 PM
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Ogami Itto
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Psych! This looks cool as hell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGP0AM14F0
12/7/09 1:47 PM
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Ogami Itto
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Only thing I don't like about it is it's emphasis on one point scoring. But it still looks cool as hell!
12/25/09 6:38 PM
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Golden Arm
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12/25/09 6:40 PM
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Golden Arm
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12/28/09 2:30 PM
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e. kaye
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 I once KOed a guy with a reverse punch to the body in a competition.   
12/28/09 10:58 PM
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Ogami Itto
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e. kaye -  I once KOed a guy with a reverse punch to the body in a competition.   


A body shot will take you out. Where'd you hit 'im?
12/29/09 12:27 AM
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e. kaye
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 On the off button.
12/30/09 11:59 AM
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Ogami Itto
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e. kaye -  On the off button.


COL (chuckled out loud)
1/2/10 6:55 PM
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OneScoup
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They are definitely tougher than I thought, but why in the world would you assign points and stop once you land something? Makes no sense.
5/25/10 4:47 PM
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e. kaye
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HARD.

5/26/10 2:54 PM
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e. kaye
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 TO the body pretty much as hard as you want.   They want to see penetration.  You are supposed to pull the punches to the head.   That demostrates control.   But if the opponent runs into it, it is up to the ref.    Kicks to the head do not have to be pulled.   You are supposed to block or evade, if you do not, getting hit is the consequence.
5/26/10 3:40 PM
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Ogami Itto
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I'm guessing it varies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumite

The tournament rules of full contact or "knockdown" styles of karate often don't award any points for controlled techniques delivered to the opponent. In fact, they usually don't award points for full-force techniques delivered to the opponent either. Instead, points are only awarded for knocking, sweeping, or throwing your opponent to the floor. Kyokushinkai and its "offshoot" karate organizations are the styles usually known to promote knockdown tournament rules. They believe this type of tournament competition is closer to "real life" personal combat, although still in a tournament setting with rules.

Criticisms against point sparring or tournament sparring are many and widespread.[citation needed] The most obvious is the quickness vs. skill argument whereas the tournament fighter learns how to shoot in quickly and deliver an unimpressive strike that gains him or her a point. This is seen mainly in Olympic style fighting such as with Tae Kwon Do. The other criticism is the face contact, which allows for disqualification if the opponent's face is discolored. This is a rather dubious requirement as it is oftentimes difficult to gauge the true intensity of the attack. Last, tournament or point sparring is seen as sport and sport alone. Traditionalists may dismiss it as "useless", but modern dojos often band with other dojos to form organizations that utilize a tournament circuit as a way to promote their dojos.
[edit] Points

Most high school karate associations use the following point scheme:

1 point: hitting the adversary's abdomen or head with your fists.
2 points: kicking the adversary's abdomen.
3 points: kicking the adversary's head.

International competition under the World Karate Federation also includes the following point scoring:

3 points: for a sweep/takedown with a follow up technique such as a stomp or a punch. 1
6/30/10 11:51 PM
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Scut Farkus
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Aka Ippon!

10/10/10 11:10 PM
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jimmyok
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Doesn't single-technique point-fighting grow out of the old ideal of "ikken hisatsu" (sp?) "to kill with one blow"?
10/10/10 11:10 PM
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jimmyok
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Doesn't single-technique point-fighting grow out of the old ideal of "ikken hisatsu" (sp?) "to kill with one blow"?
10/13/10 1:09 AM
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shen
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jimmyok - Doesn't single-technique point-fighting grow out of the old ideal of "ikken hisatsu" (sp?) "to kill with one blow"?


Yes, it does.
10/13/10 2:48 AM
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jimmyok
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Okay; thanks. Don't know why that was a double post.
10/13/10 9:17 AM
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e. kaye
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jimmyok - Doesn't single-technique point-fighting grow out of the old ideal of "ikken hisatsu" (sp?) "to kill with one blow"?

 Yes and no.   That saying is usually misunderstood.    It does not mean that you expect to kill someone or end a fight with one blow all the time.    That would be the ideal.   What is does mean, is that you should execute each and every technique with that intent all the time.   
3/12/11 11:22 PM
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6 Inch Punch
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 Hey guys. Thought you might like to read this. It is from earlier this week.

http://thegarv.com/World-s-Oldest-Whitebelt-Quest-for-the-Dragon-s-Punch.html
3/20/11 11:14 AM
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Old Red Belt
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Open Karate Tournaments have always been rough irregardless of the style. Gogen Yamaguchi invented the rules of Ju Kumite or Ippon Kumite so Karateka could practice without much injury, they still occurred. Jhoon Rhee invented Safety Punch and Kick in about 1973, after than Semi-Contact Karate evolved with less injuries. I took the rules of the California Karate League and modified them to the rules of the Armed Forces Karate Assn. They are good rules for MMA striking practice and I use them for the practice of striking along with the padded equipment of today. As for me its only used for practice for full contact. However, full contact is not for everyone, Yamaguchi realized this years ago, as well as whole organizations. Karate was never easy in the old days, what caused the Romper Room dojos and Take Your Dow classes was insurance companies attempting to advise that the arts were too dangerous, as well as the fact that many of the styles were watered down to almost no effectiveness to suit the single Soccer Moms that wanted to drop off their brats at a day care center. Even the CKL and AFKA rules were considered to dangerous in many circles. Thank God for MMA now I can hit again, or at least teach it.
3/20/11 5:32 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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I would look to kyokushin or an offshoot well before shotokan, but the kumite videos are certainly better than the typical point-fighting bullshit that's still pervasive today.

I guess if I were looking for a striking TMA, a traditional JKA style dojo would suffice. It's funny, too, I was just reading one of Nakayama's 'best karate' books yesterday and it was actually kind of refreshing to see how basic and non-mcdojoy and fantasy-based it read.
3/20/11 8:22 PM
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Ogami Itto
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Nice update, Old Red Belt.
3/21/11 6:20 PM
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cdueck
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I have trained Kyokushin and I have seen good old school Shotokan. I would not over look a good hard Shotokan class just for Kyokushin. There is many good things about Shotokan that Kyokushin doesn't really address. If you could find an Enshin school on the other hand that might be the way to go. 
3/21/11 6:42 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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cdueck - There is many good things about Shotokan that Kyokushin doesn't really address.

Such as?

Again, if I were looking for a striking TMA and had the chance to train with someone like Tsutomu Ohshima, I'd jump on it. But even so, I don't see how kyokushin/offshoots aren't a better option in almost every way possible(ie: functional skills, fitness, grappling, etc).
4/29/11 10:39 AM
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Kumite4
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 The USANKF national and international tournies are hard core. Ive competed in that ring a few times and you pull nothing to the body. Even though it is a point match , a legal shot to the body the your opponent cannot recover from in 10 seconds means disqualification by the downed player.

A lot of the competitors in that cuircut are shotokan or shotokan off shoot karatekas

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