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BJJGround Forum >> Sparring with Women


12/8/09 4:47 AM
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SisterSteel
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Edited: 12/08/09 12:22 PM
Member Since: 11/19/09
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Women are difficult. Must be something imprinted in our genetic coding.

As a woman, I welcome sparring with other females because its not something I get to do often. I cannot say that feeling is always reciprocated, certainly not because I am a difficult person to roll with, but moreso because most women do not like to venture outside their comfort zone...and that is sparring with men (and women) comparable to them in size.

I have never complained when paired up by my instructors with anyone. The only reservations I have are rolling with brand new, young buck white belts because they can be dangerous, and I cannot afford to get injured.

There are very few women, it seems, in the athletic arena who are serious about their sport. I have seen many women come and go throughout the course of the past decade, and moreso since I've been training JiuJitsu. You have those delusional enough to think they can handle the rigorous training of an elite school, those who are dying to get laid, those who are overweight and trying to get in shape, and those to whom BJJ is a passing fancy. It is quite amusing to observe and watch as the chaos unfolds on a regular basis, with fussing females storming off the mat because you've ruinned their hair and smeared their makeup. Those very same females will take a full hour to shower then make a grand exit, hips sacheting in brand new tight hip-hugging denim, blowing kisses and batting eyelids in the process.

I am fortunate in the sense that such women avoid me like the plague, but it can get very distracting and quite amusing to observe sexually charged rolls between opposite genders. I mean, what is a guy to do when he has a new white belt female trying to submit him by straddling his face.

Stall.

I know for a fact that in a serious environment among serious minded athletes, no one has the time nor the patience for such distractions. So many times the women will end up paired up with each other, and it is a riot having to listen to the mindless jabber in the ladies room about losing strands of hair in what ends up resembling a classic catfight.

I, for one, have no idea how to "train" with other women, being a woman myself.  I don't know how the guys deal with these situations given that one of them is bound to get paired up with a female at some point. I am doomed if I actually make a remote effort to execute a move efficiently, and am doomed If I don't. I personally prefer to train with men because I feel they serve far more of a challenge for me, which I find essential in breaking through plateaus and improving my game. Plus, men do not whimper and whine about their hair or how heavy you are.

It used to bother me that women would request they not get paired up with me, given how considerate I am on the mat of everyone I train with. Those are the same women who like to compete in the absolute division in local tounreys, which I find totally mind boggling.  You'd think that a woman would welcome getting paired up with a partner in training who would pose a bit of a challenge in terms of size and strength, if she had a desire to compete against women of such less than favorable attributes.

Oh well. I suppose women do serve as an attraction too and can be good for business.

SS
 
12/8/09 5:02 AM
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walbjj
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i think one of the main issues with other women rolling with u is that u would most probably outweigh them considerably. as most women on avg weigh around 130-140lbs.
also, most women aren't super competitive, especialy for a "hobby" such as bjj, unless they r one of the rare elite competitors that medal each year in the worlds/ big comps (pretty much its the same names)

also, the fact that u r a power lifter means that u share comparable strength to most avg males, so women training with u might be similar to training with a man for them, hence the reluctance.
i know its always a problem when i get paired with a partner that outweighs me, especially if they r a high level. then again, its all about the training, and u need to instill that mindset in teh gym. no matter who u train with, u can learn different things, whether its just defending, or trying to maintain guard, to trying to not get swept. pick something to work on
12/8/09 5:17 AM
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dushtin
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When I roll or spar with women I usually catch myself going over the top easy on them. I usually let them land punches on my face or kicks my legs just to give them that "hey im doing good" feeling.

When rolling I'll let myself be swept by some ridiculous movement a girl does for pretty much the same reasons as above.
12/8/09 6:19 AM
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crazydave
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SisterSteel -  The only reservations I have are rolling with brand new, young buck white belts because they can be dangerous, and I cannot afford to get injured.


You love it
12/8/09 9:31 AM
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solidsnake
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Edited: 12/08/09 9:31 AM
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Skull Punch Fightwear, CEO & Skull Puncher
In most cases, the natural strength and weight advantage is too much for them. You kind of let them set the pace and then work through whatever they're going for. Mostly defense. Don't get me wrong, there are some Hillary's out there who are rising from the ranks and tapping people.

But seriously, girls that are fit and train jiu-jitsu/mma are the bomb! How awesome is that?

Keep doing what you're doing if you enjoy it, there's always going to be those natural behaviors and politics, but in the end, it's juuuuuuuuuuuuuu-jitsu, da bes fy in da worl.
12/8/09 10:33 AM
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Invincible
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I can count on one hand the number of times I've rolled with females since I've been doing BJJ, but every one of them was serious and about their jiu-jitsu and not intimidated by me being a male.
12/8/09 11:02 AM
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chingluksuwa
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Invincible - I can count on one hand the number of times I've rolled with females since I've been doing BJJ, but every one of them was serious and about their jiu-jitsu and not intimidated by me being a male.



same with me except double the hand count
12/8/09 11:28 AM
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trent205
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 at first i was a little stand offish when paired up with a girl, but as time went on i realized that these girls who have to guts to show up and train deserve the same respect that i give the men! Im in it for the learning experience and have learned quite a bit from our female counterparts!!! 
12/8/09 11:32 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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*sips on FRATaccino*
12/8/09 11:34 AM
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2JupitersTooMany
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Edited: 12/08/09 1:56 PM
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12/8/09 11:52 AM
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Calebdude
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I'm lucky enough, at my gym I have Kaitlin Young and a bunch of REALLY good women Thai boxers.

I actually prefer going with them (I'm a 145'er) because while they are very strong, they are a lot more technical than most guys. I've learned a lot more from them about clinch, striking, getting up from bottom and sweeps than I would have going with the unlimited number of wrestling champs that come through the doors at the Academy everyday.
12/8/09 12:04 PM
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2JupitersTooMany
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I train at your gym now, Caleb, but I'm sticking to rolling around in a bathrobe.
12/8/09 12:09 PM
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Aasen
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mmmm the classic face straddle, it always takes me a really long time to escape that.
12/8/09 12:58 PM
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SisterSteel
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walbjj - i think one of the main issues with other women rolling with u is that u would most probably outweigh them considerably. as most women on avg weigh around 130-140lbs.
also, most women aren't super competitive, especialy for a "hobby" such as bjj, unless they r one of the rare elite competitors that medal each year in the worlds/ big comps (pretty much its the same names)

also, the fact that u r a power lifter means that u share comparable strength to most avg males, so women training with u might be similar to training with a man for them, hence the reluctance.
i know its always a problem when i get paired with a partner that outweighs me, especially if they r a high level. then again, its all about the training, and u need to instill that mindset in teh gym. no matter who u train with, u can learn different things, whether its just defending, or trying to maintain guard, to trying to not get swept. pick something to work on
Hi walbjj,
I understand it can be very uncomfortable for lighter, non competitive females to train with a partner who outweighs them considerably, but in my case that observation would hold little merit cosidering the consideration I show towards my training partners on the mat. I have acutally been using such rolls to my benefit and will play a defensive game, practicing my sweeps and escapes etc.. I will even start on my back and give the other female the chance to start from side control, like we do in specific training. I do not think, however, that women should complain about their partner's weight. True, the average weight for a female is in the 130-140lb range, but most men are at least 20lb over that and considering this is a sport that is predominantly male, women are bound to get paired up with someone who is considerably heavier at some point. It is inevitable. Besides, the core principles of the art of BJJ are focused around forcing the bigger stronger opponent into submission.




 
12/8/09 1:07 PM
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SisterSteel
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frederic - There is no mention of beautifully scented shampoo and conditioner as your secret weapon against rolling with guys.

 LMAO!
Why do I have a feeling you've had first hand experience with that one. lol

Yet despite my awesome shampoos and my arsenal of exquisite and intoxicating scented lotions....

I still get my ass kicked everytime. lol
12/8/09 1:33 PM
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BillyRayChubbs
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SisterSteel

, those who are dying to get laid,
 
What?

Where is this...
 
12/8/09 1:55 PM
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Nada MT
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SisterSteel,

I actually can't tell if you are bragging or complaining.

Most schools are comprised of a combination of recreational students with a smaller percentage being serious athletes...male or female.
True the number of competitive women are fewer but the dues the rec students pay keep your school open.

We have not met and I can only make an assumption that you are a senior student certainly above blue to have the nerve to make such criticisms of your teamates. I will even assume that you are the most senior woman at your school.

Might I suggest that as a figurehead, and someone to be looked up to and admired, you try to set a better example for the other girls on your team. A friendlier demeanor and a few well chosen (and encouraging) words in the changeroom privately go a long way to changing the atmosphere to one more focused on training than socializing. (maybe trying to teach face sitting girl that respect from the men in the club is a far greater goal than finding a boyfriend)

There are also times when you are just going to have to ease up. Women do take longer to adjust to contact sports...its the way society raised us. Again...as a senior team member you gotta put time in with the no stripe whites. Also remeber no matter how long you have been training and in whatever martial art...you were a spaz noobee once and I will bet someonce sucked it up to help you learn.

That being said...some girls (and guys) are never going to want to be competative and are only doing it as a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that.

I am on both sides of the fence. I am the most senior female member of my muay thai team with over a dozen years behind me. I have logged 1000's of hours holding pads for "foxy boxers" and a few have made the trainsition to more serious training. It does take a few talks in the changeroom on gym ettiquette including what to do with their hair so it doesnt get ripped out and encouraging them to take of their makeup before training.
I am also a no stripe white in bjj. Our senior women does an excelent example to encourage our girls to suck it up and train hard. She also takes the time to roll with me and the other women at a less than 100%...slowly turning up the pressure over time until the girls get more cofortable with top pressure. This might be the key to your girls not freaking out.

one more thing...what does it matter if they take forever in the shower and come out of there looking good? You can be a fierce competetor and fox. Nothing wrong with that.
They seem to have the fox part down...maybe try to help and encourage them to be the other??
12/8/09 2:06 PM
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countlphie
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BillyRayChubbs - 
SisterSteel

, those who are dying to get laid,
 
What?

Where is this...
 
12/8/09 2:08 PM
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Hail 2 Da Thief
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Edited: 12/08/09 2:08 PM
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SisterSteel , those who are dying to get laid

I LOL'd
12/8/09 2:14 PM
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Nada MT
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it also might be a good idea to inform them of the unwritten but very real gym policy (I know it, you know it...and even though the boys will never admit it...)

"the girl has got to go"

If you fool around with the boys and it goes bad everyone knows whats going to happen...

unless she is the next superstar at the gym and there is money riding on her training...

sometimes letting the new girls know they will lose valuable training not to metion their entire peer group is enough to stop the dry hummping.
12/8/09 2:37 PM
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gsx_r
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Why not just be an adult about it? Treat the females like every other male on the gym. Equal rights and all.

I roll with them same same as any male. If they're going slow I'll roll slow, hard go hard. And just like when rolling with someone lighter then me I don't crush them with my weight or power threw stuff.
12/8/09 3:34 PM
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Baroquen Record
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i play defense against females. i pretty much roll with them like i do when i roll with the kids or young teens.

i havent really trained with any females who were good enough to actually test me though, i guess it would be different in that case.
12/8/09 3:48 PM
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bgup619
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We have a good number of girls tha train at my school.. a black a few purples and a bunch of blues. I dont mind rolling with them, but I never go as hard as I can. Im not intrested in using too much power to finish a girl, same thing when I roll with smaller guys (not that it happens often) As a smaller guy I prefer technique over power and enjoy some good chess matches with the purple and above females.. The female blues are alot like the male blues.. I can do what I want and they wont catch me anyway...lol If women wann atrain thats awesome but the need to take their lumps throughthe ranks like the guys, it earns my respect when they do.
12/8/09 3:51 PM
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mjm345
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Even with experienced female grapplers, I find there is a fine line between going too light and pissing them off and going too hard and pissing them off. Like everything else with women, it can get very complicated.
12/8/09 4:06 PM
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SisterSteel
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Edited: 12/08/09 4:24 PM
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Hello Nadia.
How nice of you to honor us with your thought provoking and insightful feedback. You remind me of this 230lb, 6'1" Pro rugby player who came to Alliance and left in tears after a good old fashioned lesson in humility. Allow me to clarify things for you to better assist you in deciphering the complexity of my post that has you discombobulated, confusing bragging and complaint for mere observation and harmless debate. For starters, It would be highly unethical to boast on a public forum that is frequented by a large number of my team mates. And my team mates and instructors are among the best in the business. That does not change the fact that I have an opinion that I am entitled to humbly expressing, just as you do, regardless of my ranking or my level of expertise. I do not recall self aggrandizing amidst describing the less than favorable circumstances surrounding my experiences in interacting with other females on the mat. Respect is earned and independent of hierarchy where I come from. So perhaps you should get your ego in check, and fine tune your analytical skills before you even attempt to lecture me on etiquette or make any assumptions on the intent behind my post.

My school is not surviving off its female presence in the least but more so off its reputation, and had you not been too engrossed in telling me how awesome you were and critisizing my work ethic, you would have perhaps tried to relate to my situation as the highly esteemed and revered instructor that you supposedly are, rather than lecture me on how I should go about molding other women to better assist them in following suit. Contrary to your assumptions, I pay my instructors to teach me JiuJitsu, and not hair styling. I used common sense for that. It was only a matter of time before I figured out it was in my best interest to keep my hair out of everyone's mouth. I expect other women to have enough rational thought to do the same. A woman who cannot make choices without constant direction does not belong in contact sports, she belongs barefoot in the kitchen.

I certainly never said there was anything wrong with women using BJJ as a means to an end, whether it be finding a boyfriend or becoming a world champion. But you pair up a female say with a desire to become world champion with the foxy lady looking for a boyfriend, and you have a bigger mismatch than outweighing and out-muscling someone by 100lb, regardless of gender. I am not an instructor. I am a student, and a student with a desire to continue to improve and grow in the sport. If I wanted to socialize and babysit other women I would have joined a book club or taken up soft ball. But alas, I took up BJJ as a reprieve after spending 2 decades under bending bars, in the hopes of actually getting somewhere with it after a lifetime of gruesome training, injury and perpetual discomfort and pain, when I could have easily retired.

So, in closure, might I humbly suggest as a student to a highly revered figurehead that you go punch a bag and work out that aggression and hostility, because it is attitudes like yours that ruin contact sports for the rest of us.   

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