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HolyGround >> Why do men cheat?


12/15/09 10:48 AM
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770mdm
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Edited: 12/15/09 10:48 AM
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 Here's a guy who lives in a hyper competitive world with guys like Clinton, Spitzer, Edwards etc.  who destroy their own lives through infidelity.  Why?  Is it as lame as saying they're married making them more desirable?  They're rich and therefore attractive to other women?  That for guys like them infedility is inevitable?  Is the best answer that these guys fall into traps thinking they're entitled to whatever they want? 

One perspective is men have affairs not for physical reasons but for emotional ones.  They live as they do just one failure away from obscurity. They know that their value as human beings rests entirely in other people's hands. 

There is a natural assumption that husbands have affairs for sex. In fact, the vast majority of husbands' affairs have no physical component. They are cyber affairs that take place over the internet. They are conducted over the phone and are never consummated. And even when they do get physical it is often very bad and unsatisfying sex, as Monica Lewinsky shared in the Starr Report and as a multitude of JFK's mistresses alleged as well.

What we see in the public are these cool cats who have inscrutable public images until IT hits the fan.  (no pun intended).  and we find out.

If these guys are so insecure they need to feel better with infedelity then why not turn to their wives? 

Many have said that husbands like Tiger Woods are sex addicts. But then why aren't they addicted to sex with their wives? Why does it have to come from another woman?

One thought I had, the reason why these high profile guys cheat resides in the idea they are one step away from obscurity.  That everyone else has control over them because of their celebrity status.  But they are exerting some control of their own by gravitating to the impulse of control?  Being in control of their own lives? 

I'd like to hear some religious answers to this problem be it Christian or Muslim etc.  I'll say there has always been a fear of being in the public eye for religious Jews.  More so a decade ago then today but Jews didn't want to be in the paper for good news or bad when I was growing up.  Maybe it was to prevent these types of behaviours?  Not a solution for todays world I know but just an insight. 

What are the mistakes we make as men and how do we fix them?
12/15/09 2:30 PM
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Grakman
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 The point of view from the 'standard' Christian view is that we are all sinners; our nature is to sin. The solution is repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. The indwelling holy spirit is supposed to give us power to over come sin.

In practice it doesn't always work so well as the pat explanation though; otherwise you'd never have proclaimed Christians fall from grace.

And I know the argument is well maybe they weren't 'real' Christians, but that's just another 'no true Scotsman' legal fallacy, imo.
12/17/09 12:17 AM
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PembrokePinesVillain
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  because men are stupid and sins of the flesh are very tempting i guess
12/17/09 1:07 PM
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Grakman
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 Just so it's not overlooked in this thread, women cheat too, and current polls show almost as many women are unfaithful in marriage as men.

It isn't a MAN problem it's a MANKIND problem.
12/17/09 2:20 PM
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Robert Wynne
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 because we are men of conquest...and the conquest of forbidden fruit is very tantalizing to us...even exciting. so we fimd the thrill of the hunt intoxicating and allow it to drive us to what we later regret.

 

at least that's my excuse..:)

12/18/09 1:26 AM
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PembrokePinesVillain
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Grakman -  Just so it's not overlooked in this thread, women cheat too, and current polls show almost as many women are unfaithful in marriage as men.

It isn't a MAN problem it's a MANKIND problem.

 very true!
12/19/09 11:57 AM
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jimmy23
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Edited: 12/19/09 12:16 PM
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my brief theory

people who are extremely successful in areas such as sports or politics are hyper competitive, almost childlike in that . ITs what gets them to such high levels of drive and past the hordes of others they defeat or manipulate to get there. Hyper competivie people have huge egos

Brett Farve tried to get a guy fired from a local restaurant a few years back . The guy was waiting on Farve, and had just moved to the area, and had no idea who Farve was. Farve was furious, the waiter was the only person in the building not kissing his behind. The guy got sent home for the night and came very close to being fired.

Thing is, all that material success and fame wont fill a hole in a mans soul. So he finds it easy to chase temporary comfort in sex with a new woman whenever possible. And that works, for a little while, untilthat nagging feeling of wanting MORE pops back up. So some more new nookie is required.

 Ive seen plenty of very successful people who were miserable and did everything possible (outside of spirituality) to try to feel better. How much harder is it for someone at the top of a competitive profession to feel content? How much easier for them to turn to sex for a distraction from larger issues?





 
12/19/09 1:18 PM
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Lahi
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Edited: 12/19/09 1:19 PM
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.
12/19/09 1:19 PM
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Lahi
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Grakman -  Just so it's not overlooked in this thread, women cheat too, and current polls show almost as many women are unfaithful in marriage as men.

It isn't a MAN problem it's a MANKIND problem.



A female I work with told me the other day she thought that in 95% of marriages, one partner or the other was cheating. Maybe that's a bit high, but I really don't know anymore. I told her I was trying to find someone who marriage meant something too, who was willing to fight hard to make it work. Her response was "good luck with that."
You have ignored this user.
12/19/09 3:43 PM
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Lahi
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A quick scan of surveys online shows results that claim anywhere from 15%-60% of married people have cheated at some time. I'd be curious what the real numbers are.
12/19/09 5:21 PM
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Grakman
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jimmy23 - my brief theory

people who are extremely successful in areas such as sports or politics are hyper competitive, almost childlike in that . ITs what gets them to such high levels of drive and past the hordes of others they defeat or manipulate to get there. Hyper competivie people have huge egos

Brett Farve tried to get a guy fired from a local restaurant a few years back . The guy was waiting on Farve, and had just moved to the area, and had no idea who Farve was. Farve was furious, the waiter was the only person in the building not kissing his behind. The guy got sent home for the night and came very close to being fired.

Thing is, all that material success and fame wont fill a hole in a mans soul. So he finds it easy to chase temporary comfort in sex with a new woman whenever possible. And that works, for a little while, untilthat nagging feeling of wanting MORE pops back up. So some more new nookie is required.

 Ive seen plenty of very successful people who were miserable and did everything possible (outside of spirituality) to try to feel better. How much harder is it for someone at the top of a competitive profession to feel content? How much easier for them to turn to sex for a distraction from larger issues?

 This seems very plausible to me.

But the poor cheat, too. Think about which socio-economic class has the most out of wedlock mothers with children from more than one father.
12/28/09 6:26 PM
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bjjdna
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biological evolution produced men and women who cheat for different reasons...over the millenia men who sneak around and screw other women on the side left more offspring.

that's why you just can't turn off biochemical reactions that create those lustfull desires...some act on those desires some don't...many men would cheat if they could but can't because they lack the resources/looks females desire so they turn to the internet/porn/etc

men prefer youth and beauty and women prefer resources and status...for men, banging lots of hot women means high status...whereas for women it's ho status

men do their deed and then can bolt which makes cheating much less of a burden than for women who are stuck with a child...that's why women generally are the mate choosers..women are nest builders and want men that will share the burden of raising children.

what's really interesting is the differences between men and women after they cheat...men often become infuriated and want to kill...men are obsessed with the details of the sexual act itself...the visual images are torturing

whereas women are mostly concerned not with the act itself...but with whether their cheating man loves the other woman

it all makes sense in light of biological evolution
12/29/09 1:23 AM
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the rooster
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it all makes sense in light of biological evolution

me: yes, little amoebas were cheating on each other and as they morphed over eons through the perfect "storm" the animal descendents also "cheated' on their marital vows which stemmed from their religious views, and some of the avian's "flew the coop" while others just ate their young...and viola...primate turns to man.

give me a break.

The complexity of relationships extend far beyond the naturalist views. how do you evolve "love", "passion", "joy" "fidelity" and other ethereal qualities that you cannot hold and physically view as matter.

Biological evolution?!!?

Riiiiighttt....
12/29/09 10:21 AM
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Grakman
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 The argument could be made that it's only 'cheating' because of the moral religious construct we have built around the act of sex itself. There is a tribe in South America in which everyone can sleep with anyone they want; they children are raised communally.

From where does jealousy come, biologically speaking? Is it a cultural accretion to our evolutionary instincts or what?
12/29/09 9:52 PM
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the rooster
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Love vs. Lust
12/31/09 1:05 PM
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bjjdna
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"From where does jealousy come, biologically speaking? Is it a cultural accretion to our evolutionary instincts or what?"

over the millenia...men who became jeolous and enraged when other men make a move on your woman/women, livestock, resources, etc...these men left more offspring...the biochemical reactions that create the feelings of jealosy and anger were preserved over evolutionary time

when i was a teenager, one of my first loves got drunk and screwed one of my softball buddies...i've never wanted to kill anyone more in my life than those two after i found out...i did not act on my jealousy but i did not choose those jealous feelings either...they were a part of me
1/2/10 10:58 PM
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the rooster
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jealousy, lust, rage...this is not the realm of the materialist. These are emotive and not tangible. Therefore they are not real.
1/4/10 9:06 AM
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jimmy23
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lol, good post rooster 
1/4/10 6:37 PM
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toelocku
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the rooster - jealousy, lust, rage...this is not the realm of the materialist. These are emotive and not tangible. Therefore they are not real.

lool
1/4/10 8:40 PM
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LoveToChoke
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I'm pretty sure that emotions can be measured through brain activity or hormones. But keep being ignorant if it makes you happy.
1/5/10 9:42 AM
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770mdm
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Cheating is probably a little bit both Nature & Nurture.  Certian things in life just have power over you.  I think that's part of the answer is knowing it could happen to you.  The moment you think it can't is almost a challenge to G-d. 

1/7/10 5:12 PM
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the rooster
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love to choke: I'm pretty sure that emotions can be measured through brain activity or hormones. But keep being ignorant if it makes you happy.

me: can you hold jealousy? Can you measure love with a measuring cup? Can you throw a handful of rage?

Your a materialist right? A needle moving on a graph or an mri of the brain with different colors doesn't quanitify a non material "thing" does it?

Whose being ignorant? On one hand you dismiss what you cannot see and on the other hand you advocate and defend it?!??

I believe in ethereal concepts and the non material (as a Christian) so I have no problem quantifying emotive and spiritual concepts.
1/7/10 6:18 PM
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LoveToChoke
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Can you please provide a source for your claims that non-theists don't believe in emotions? This is quite a strawman you've created here.
1/7/10 7:06 PM
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the rooster
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Well, I actually said a materialist/naturalist.

Most secualar scientist tout their a priori commitment to materialism and naturalism.

Now are you saying as a non theist, that you cannot believe in a God that isn't material, that you cannot see or quantify through your senses but you do believe in other invisible, non material "things" like "concepts", "ideas", "emotions", etc.?

I'm just trying to understand you LTC. I can read some of the more well known secular naturalist and gather their quotes concerning the non material "world" but since you are defending your belief in non material things I guess I'd ask if you are consistent?
1/7/10 9:17 PM
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LoveToChoke
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Edited: 01/07/10 9:20 PM
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You're projecting Rooster.
I've read a lot of literature by Atheists and have never once read anything that said that emotions weren't real or important. Watching a Dawkins documentary the other day and he said that some people's feeling for "God" were as real as his own feelings for his wife. He said those feelings were very legitimate - just that the focus of the feelings was not real.

Sam Harris in his book The End of Faith writes about spirituality as an atheist - it's a very interesting read.

So again, I've never read anything that suggests atheists don't believe in emotions or their effects. How could they - it's been proven (by science) that heartache over a lost love has the same physical effects on the body as real pain.

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