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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Who is the best Newaza guy of the last 30 years?


12/17/09 6:14 PM
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Newazaluver
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Would Kashiwazaki be number 1?
12/17/09 6:17 PM
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HoldYerGround
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Depends on your criteria I think.

My vote goes to Rolls Gracie.
12/17/09 6:27 PM
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Newazaluver
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Yea, criteria would be Judo..
12/17/09 7:01 PM
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judo man
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Flavio Canto, Neil Adams are also very strong newaza players.
12/17/09 7:39 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Orange County Judo Training Center, OCJudo.com Team
 Some others with great newaza

Leo Leite would have to be included. He is the only person who has won the Mundials in the black belt division and medaled in an A level judo tournament.

Ezio Gamba had great newaza. Very impressive performance at the 1984 Olympics.

Ronda Rousey has great transistions and is relentless in her attacks.

David Camarillo used his BJJ skills very effectively to place in A level judo tournaments.


12/17/09 8:12 PM
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Newazaluver
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Very nice list of great Newaza player. But if you had to chose One.

I still say Kashiwazaki.
12/17/09 9:06 PM
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Koga
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Kashiwazaki and Adams were great competitors and are very technical, but actually don't make my list which is based on my rough thoughts as to who had the most international competition success with newaza.

Last 30 years:

1. Yasuhiro Yamashita JPN
2. Frederic Demontfaucon FRA
3. Peter Seisenbacher AUS

Last 10 years:

1. Frederic Demontfaucon FRA
2. Tamerlan Tmenov RUS
3. Flavio Canto BRA

30-50 years ago:

1. Isao Okano JPN
2. Isao Inokuma JPN
3. Anton Geesink HOL
12/18/09 12:21 AM
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de braco
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Kashiwazaki was very good,Neil Adams also.

I was looking thru some old Blackbelt magazines and noticed an add for Joe Moreiras bjj tapes that said he was a 2 time world judo champ and 2 time Okano cup winner.Anyone know if this is legit,or just marketing?
12/18/09 2:06 AM
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easyrhino
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tough to make a call....but if you based your criteria around high profile wins in judo matches through newaza, then i think yamashita would win that contest. he won tons of matches via newaza and was never close to being beaten on the mat....
12/18/09 10:33 AM
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judoblackbelt
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To Debraco: From his website:After four months of training with the Japanese Olympic team and completing a course with more than 1,000 black belt students, Moreira became vice champ in an international tournament: the Judo World Cup. The first Brazian to win the gold (and medal) at the World Judo championships was in 2005:Joao Derly-66k. Flavio Canto did place 3rd at the 2004 Olympic games. I looked all the way back to the 1st World Championships. The 1965 World Judo Championshiops were in Rio and there were no medal winners form Brazil. To win the judo world championships or Olympics by a BJJ player has never happened and is unlikely to happen.
12/18/09 11:04 PM
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leothelion
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 From what I have seen... Flavio Canto...or maybe Neil Adams...

In watching the 2008 BJJ mundials dvd...I saw Roger Gracie hit some beautiful classic Judo throws...It would be interesting to see what he could do in an A level Judo tournament...

Best newaza of the last 60 years:   Gene Lebell

I heard from a reliable source ...that when Gene went to the Kodokan in the 50's to train he scared the Bejabbers out of the folks there...
12/19/09 2:28 PM
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JeanMarc Lalonde
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Edited: 12/19/09 4:07 PM
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Isn't Judo Ground work BJJ ?????
12/19/09 6:47 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Pawel Nastula's juji-gatame roll might be one of the scariest things i've ever seen in Judo. I know he is not the same guy in MMA that he was during his prime in Judo... but, that juji-gatame rollover was a thing of legends. Thor would be proud.

Swain's newaza was relentless and very solid, the same as Adam's, but I dont think either of them won the number of matches in newaza that Kaswiwazaki did...

In terms fo Judo newaza.. it is Kashiwazaki and then the rest. Mind you, "the rest" includes some truly great newaza all the same.
12/19/09 7:34 PM
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judoblackbelt
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To JM Lalonde: Judo ground work is simiar in the movements to BJJ but it ends there. Time limits on the ground,rules,restarts to standing all differrent from BJJ.
Josh - I second Kashiwazaki after watching him in competition and his newaza book. Okano is in there to.
leotheloin - Roger Gracie has as much potential of any BJJ player to be an A level judo player. The rigors of international competition would require him to devote all his time to judo.
12/19/09 7:45 PM
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JeanMarc Lalonde
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But when talking about the fundementals of what BJJ and Judo is there both offspring of Jutsu aren't they? Helio learn his form a GJJ from judo with emphesis on newaza training....Sure alot of guys have discovered new tecniques under that system but so has Gene Lebell, Karo ect... it all Jutsu isn't it?
12/20/09 9:12 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Yes, The first chapter in Kano's book Kodokan Judo is Jujutsu becomes Judo. I'm not a big historian by any means. BUt I know from my years of training/competition the rules have led to the the developement of the unique aspects of each sport. Look at judo, with no leg grabs as inital attacks is the latest change to come along.
12/20/09 12:15 PM
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JeanMarc Lalonde
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with that being said Jigono Kano did say...as well as helio that there style of fighting is ment for self defense....the sport aspect of both sport have nothing to do with the martial ARTS part of the dicipline....the way i see it Jigono Kano change the training method of jutsu with the randori system and the gracie focus more on mat work....but the mat work is still newaza training with more work put into it...

Now if i was a judoka (im not been looking into it, im actually a wrestler/BJJ guy) but with this new mma "fad" wouldn't you just start working on your newaza more...it seem to me there more weapons in judo...yeah they focus on tachi-waza...but they also focus on newaza and when it comes to combat both are essential while in bjj there newaza is off the hook, but a good wrestler or judoka usually slams him,..... And i see alot of people here saying judo doesn't have leg submission...well there a local 4dan in my town he got some...they may not be legal in competition but Judo practioner should know the techniques and defence?????

Again i believe all these martial arts come from ninjutsu ...and that jutsu of ninjutsu were broken down into different school of jutsu... ryu jutsu being the one we use today that we call Judo, BJJ,....

My historical info might be off ...but im enjoying the discuss so please opinions ????
12/20/09 11:08 PM
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junon
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surprised that it took so long for someone to mention Nastula and Swain.
12/21/09 3:08 AM
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Prik Khee Noo
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From what I've seen on video, Demontfaucon's newaza is as slick as any BJJers.
12/21/09 5:41 PM
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judoblackbelt
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THe ground skills of the above mentioned players are right up there with the best. But all of them also are great stand up fighters and know how to transition into ground work so well. I feel it is difficult to guage the effectiveness of judo mat work vs BJJ without having to fight in the guard.
12/22/09 7:14 AM
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junon
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with that said anyone with the hook ups on those Isao Okano videos?

ive managed to get a hold of 1 of them thanks to someone from here.
12/22/09 11:43 AM
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JeanMarc Lalonde
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Yeah sorry guys for going opff topic, im a noobie i guess you could say to the judo world...but im enjoying my journey into it...the history alone make you appreciate the art....MAN i though i had it figure out when i tracced it back to the Tenshin Shoden Ryu-jujutsu...apparently not...

as for best newaza guy i honestly can't mak...n educated dicesion...

im thinking kimura...he must of had good ground if he inspired or in some way help create the strick newaza style or BJJ? ...ANY GOOD SUGGESTION on judo sites to learn. Iv been to judoforum (greatsite)
12/22/09 6:37 PM
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judoblackbelt
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To:Lalonde;www.judovision.org,www.judoinfosite.nl,www.judoinfo.com,www.superjudo.tv.
12/23/09 12:05 AM
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OsotoGary
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Shockingly, lots of Americans named here, yet none of them is Jimmy Pedro. Pedro, probably has the best Newaza IMO out of anyone in the USA.
12/23/09 1:02 AM
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Newazaluver
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I dunno about that. Mike Swain was a terror on the mat.

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