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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Who is the best Newaza guy of the last 30 years?

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12/23/09 4:14 AM
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shen
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JeanMarc Lalonde - 
Again i believe all these martial arts come from ninjutsu ...and that jutsu of ninjutsu were broken down into different school of jutsu... ryu jutsu being the one we use today that we call Judo, BJJ,....

My historical info might be off ...but im enjoying the discuss so please opinions ????


Yes, your historical info is off... to put it mildly.
12/26/09 3:46 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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John Baylon's newaza is good.. but it isnt as if it put him on the world map of "greats."

He has had a very good career and is a very good Judoka, but he does not belong in this conversation anymore than I do.
1/10/10 10:51 AM
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Osaekomi
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Some great judoka were osae-waza specialists. What about a guy that pins a high percentage of his opponents? That would be a newaza ippon just as much as a sub would.

Yamashita and Geesink come to mind.
1/11/10 4:35 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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JoshuaResnick - Pawel Nastula's juji-gatame roll might be one of the scariest things i've ever seen in Judo. I know he is not the same guy in MMA that he was during his prime in Judo... but, that juji-gatame rollover was a thing of legends. Thor would be proud.


Could you link some video, please? I'd love to see this.
1/12/10 7:51 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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just google video search for him.
2/8/10 7:07 PM
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Wasa-B
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Nastula was pretty legendary with that in judo but it did look sloppy against Aleks in Pride for example. Could be a case of needing more time to develop in a no-gi/mma setting.

Oyama tried one vs Wallid. Wasnt very successful. Was Kashiwazaki really coaching Oyama?
2/9/10 10:45 PM
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JSho
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allcloser - Omigawa pretty much dominated Nam Phan, who I assume is a BJJ blackbelt.


I think he is still a brown belt, his background was in Taekwondo and Quyen Dao. He quit doing gi bjj in 2005, now focusing just on no-gi. Of course Omigawa tko'd nam, not submitting him.

Just for completeness:

Omigawa was beaten by "JZ" Calvancanti (sub 1 minute KO) and Thiago Tavares (U/D), both of whom are BJJ blackbelts (both of whom focus more on nogi/mma than gi).

Omigawa has beaten Jason Chambers (split decision), who is one of Eddie Bravo's brown belts.
2/9/10 10:53 PM
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junon
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from what i remember he was actually out grappled in the Chambers fight.
2/10/10 11:41 PM
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Newazaluver
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Nastula would not submit Kashiwazaki.
2/11/10 7:35 AM
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JSho
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15-1 in mma and current fw king of pancrase would be no tomato can.
2/11/10 10:25 AM
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JSho
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In any case, you make us digress since Omigawa isn;t getting the crown of best newaza guy.
2/13/10 1:04 PM
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judom
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Kashiwazaki, is that even close ?
2/14/10 11:07 AM
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laqueus
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de braco - Kashiwazaki was very good,Neil Adams also.

I was looking thru some old Blackbelt magazines and noticed an add for Joe Moreiras bjj tapes that said he was a 2 time world judo champ and 2 time Okano cup winner.Anyone know if this is legit,or just marketing?


I'd expect this to be true, especially since there are claims in the BJJ community that Joe doesn't have a legit BJJ black belt, only a Judo one.
2/15/10 1:54 AM
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laqueus
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Interesting. The world judo champ part should be easy to verify though, no?
2/15/10 3:52 AM
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Wasa-B
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Here is your easy answer: No Moreira was not a world judo champ (at least I dont think so....98% sure).

Also, there is a Kano Cup. Name should ring a bell. There was also a Okano (early world champ iirc) but dont think there is a cup/tourn named after him
2/15/10 2:59 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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Joe Moreira was never even an international player that I can find.

there is no judo factfile on him...
2/15/10 4:50 PM
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laqueus
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Huh. BJJ guys say he's not a legit BJJer, just a Judoka, and nobody in Judo can find anything on him either, yet he seems to be good either way and produce good grapplers...
2/15/10 8:44 PM
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Newazaluver
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Who exactly is saying he's not a BB?

I mean, um... he is a 7th degree Koral belt in BJJ. 7th Degee.... don't you think he would have already been debunked about uh... 7 degrees ago if her were not legit? He was given his BB by Grandmaster Francisco Mansur. How could you get anymore legit then that?
2/18/10 2:53 PM
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laqueus
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His original black belt is questioned, since then he continued being ranked up, but some people figure if it wasn't legit to begin with, all the promotions are invalid.

And... Koral belt?
2/18/10 8:20 PM
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Newazaluver
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laqueus - His original black belt is questioned, since then he continued being ranked up, but some people figure if it wasn't legit to begin with, all the promotions are invalid.

And... Koral belt?


Francisco Mansur awarded him his belt. If it wasn't legit then, that surely makes it legit now.

Grandmaster Francisco Mansur is a 9th degree BB under Helio Gracie. If he's giving you bets, it doesn't get any more legit then that.

Koral belt is 7 or 8th degree black and red belt.
2/20/10 6:28 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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the only Moriera found in the judo factfile on judoinside.com are Rafael and Carlos from Brasil...Andre, Paulo and Joao from Portugal... A Jeremy from France...

None of whom have any major international medals-- much less any medals from any event in Japan.
3/2/10 2:56 PM
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KingBodhi
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Why no mention of John Saylor? He was a terror at the OTC in the 70s and 80s and pioneer in Judo and Jiu Jitsu.

3/2/10 3:30 PM
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thePetester
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"I believeJoe actually placed in the Jigoro Kano Cup in Japan"
You are wrong.
3/2/10 11:40 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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John Saylor??? Are you serious? So what if he was a terror at the OTC, his newaza was nowhere near what Swain's was and I am very sure that he was not one of the best guys in the world at any time.

He was very good, but very good is not nearly close enough to be in this conversation.


and.. serioulsy... stop it with Joe M.. the guy is fake and fraud.
3/3/10 8:21 AM
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thePetester
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"According to his website, "

We all know a BJJer would never fabricate or exagerate claims regarding their accomplishments in judo, so if it's on his website, it must be true!

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