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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Who is the best Newaza guy of the last 30 years?

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3/3/10 8:58 AM
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judom
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More nonsense from the BJJ ninjas. They are all multiple-time world champions. Fortunately, in judo, we have judoinside.com where we can check these fakers.

There is nobody with even the name "Joe" from Brazil and there are only few guys from US but its not him.

Translating from his web site, what it really says is: Joe M. was a practice dummy for the Japanese national team and then participated in a local tournament with 2 green belts and won a second place.





3/3/10 9:00 AM
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judom
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Who is John Saylor ? I never heard this name. It also does not exist in judoinside.com. Care to explain ?

And btw, there is not such place Terry university, but there is Tenry University.

One guy in this discussion may be Yashkevitch.
3/3/10 10:53 AM
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leothelion
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 The Brazilian national Judo team is really solid ( they regularly kick the butt of the American team...and place on the world judo stage as well)....The two brazilian BJJ instructors I have personally been taught by....my instructor..."Marra" Correa and Royler Gracie...both repeatedly emphasized their debt to Judo as well... In Judo and BJJ ...  "posers" tend to get exposed after a time.... Their are no secrets at the higher levels of both these fighting arts...
3/3/10 7:03 PM
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Wasa-B
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judom - 

And btw, there is not such place Terry university, but there is Tenry University.


Judo Thierry?

Terry-Man from Kinnikuman?

And btw, its Tenri. ;p
4/12/10 2:33 AM
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barroids
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Sorry to bump an old thread but I simply had to add this interview snippet from 2003 to the conversation:

Interviewer: Who has the strongest newaza in the world?

Kosei Inoue: Yasuhiro Yamashita Sensei.

Interviewer: No I'm sorry, I meant the best in the world at this time.

Kosei Inoue: Yes, Yamashita Sensei is the strongest in the world now. I know it by randori.
4/12/10 11:51 AM
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jaykoo
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yamashita doesn't just choke, he skewers...
4/12/10 8:53 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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when a guy who is nearly 300 lbs slaps a choke you that is one thing.. but i highly doubt youll see Yamashita showing the kind of skill that Kashiwazaki, Okano, Swain, Pedro, etc do... He is very good for a big man, that that is different than being the best in the world....

Inoue was not known for his newaza, he has solid newaza for sure, but not the best in the world by a long shot.
4/18/10 12:13 AM
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Mr Mike from NC
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"especially since there are claims in the BJJ community that Joe doesn't have a legit BJJ black belt"

Yeah, yeah, anyone in the BJJ community can claim anything because the community is filled with people who want to tear down the competition. Name some names.
There are claims, blah, blah, blah.
4/19/10 10:18 PM
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Koga
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Yamashita was beating other world class heavy weights in newaza in world championships, olympics and the All Japans, can anyone find a single match when he looked like he was even close to getting into any danger at all on the ground?
4/20/10 11:56 AM
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jaykoo
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Kashiwazaki, Okano Pedro, Swain seem like they have more skills in newaza, based on their books, videos, tournament footage, personal experiences with - statistically though, how many matches did they win with newaza? Yamashita, it is generally agreed, seems to have a less well-rounded newaza skillset, but he did seem to use it more effectively in competition - at least there is better records for him that are accessible to non-japanese speakers due to his fame.

So what constitutes great - having a large, demonstrative skillset in newaza or winning with newaza in competition?

4/20/10 5:31 PM
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barroids
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Edited: 04/20/10 5:47 PM
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What sticks out for me in Yamashita's footage is his speed and reaction time, both in tachiwaza and newaza. Legendary elite heavyweights in combat sports often have this advantage. Muhammad Ali in boxing, Fedor in mma, Asashoryu in sumo. I don't know much about greco or freestyle, but it would be interesting to hear how Karelin's speed compared with his peers.

When the competition is roughly equal--i.e. most international-level heavies have good strength, technique, and endurance--to rise far above that elite crowd you need something extra. Not many of them are very fast (of course they are fast compared to the ordinary 300lbs McDonalds fatboy, but they are all about the same compared to each other). IMO the rare speed of Yamashita or Fedor isn't something that can be taught through "explosiveness training" or "fast twitch fibre development." Nobody is going to develop Fedor's freakish speed by doing Olympic lifts or sprints or whatever.
4/20/10 7:47 PM
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jaykoo
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yamashita was stupid fast - I believe someone on judoforum (unofficially)clocked one of his attacks from All Japans on video at 8 frames from entry to kake - there are 29.97 frames/second(NTSC) - so we're looking at roughly 1/3 of a second for a heavyweight. That's spooky.
4/21/10 4:24 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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yea, he was tremendous for a biggum.....

but he is not kashiwazaki.
4/22/10 1:18 PM
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TheRealMKL
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Newazaluver - Who exactly is saying he's not a BB?

I mean, um... he is a 7th degree Koral belt in BJJ. 7th Degee.... don't you think he would have already been debunked about uh... 7 degrees ago if her were not legit? He was given his BB by Grandmaster Francisco Mansur. How could you get anymore legit then that?


I know this is nit-picky but I think you mean "coral belt"

"Koral" is a Gi and BJJ clothing/equipment manufacturer
4/22/10 1:19 PM
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TheRealMKL
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My picks for the Newaza judokas though would probably go more towards Canto and Pedro personally.

Solid aggressive technique with smooth transitions
4/23/10 9:05 AM
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TheRealMKL
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JoshuaResnick - John Saylor??? Are you serious? So what if he was a terror at the OTC, his newaza was nowhere near what Swain's was and I am very sure that he was not one of the best guys in the world at any time.

He was very good, but very good is not nearly close enough to be in this conversation.


and.. serioulsy... stop it with Joe M.. the guy is fake and fraud.



He may have fraudulently flaunted himself in the past but for him to produce guys like Roy Harris who can then bring up guys like Roy Dean there has to be a good level of legitimacy to his skills.

I look at it like this. Did he lie at some point about his skills along the way in the last 30 years, highly likely.

Is he still a bad ass that could easily choke the living shite out of any of us on this thread? Also likely

Just my $0.02
4/23/10 4:17 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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TheRealMKL - 


He may have fraudulently flaunted himself in the past but for him to produce guys like Roy Harris who can then bring up guys like Roy Dean there has to be a good level of legitimacy to his skills.

I look at it like this. Did he lie at some point about his skills along the way in the last 30 years, highly likely.


Exactly, and that production of good coaches and competitors is more than some instructors can say... *coughcough*Rorion*cough*.

And as far as lying about their background? 400-0 anyone?
4/24/10 1:18 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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I have a huge problem with anybody who has an ego like that. I am egotistical enough for 99% of the world's population-- and even I am more than willing to not lie about credentials.

if you are good, you are good. period. only an idiot believes something like 400-0 and only an idiot thinks he can lie about winning a major Judo event and not be caught.

sure, maybe they could both choke me out. that's nice. i could most likley also throw them both onto their necks. and the point is?

i can go roll with a white belt tomorrow and get my guard passed a hundred times. then roll with a BB and pass his. who cares???

if you are good, you are good. that's it. don't lie about it though.
4/27/10 2:32 PM
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yusul
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i believe saylor was mentioned because he was the first martial artist to stalemate a gracie on the ground (rorion). it would have been interesting to see a prime swain against rorion in a grappling match.
4/28/10 2:44 AM
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JSho
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Swain is a world class practitioner of his sport whereas Rorion may be a world class teacher/coach, but was never an elite sports bjj player.
4/28/10 7:44 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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i said it once, i will say it again.. 400-0 my ass.

FYI.. Saylor and Swain are more or less the same size. to suggest that you'd put them against Roger Gracie-- who is a heavyweight-- shows how little you seem to know.

5/1/10 2:02 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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Edited: 05/01/10 2:04 AM
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CSH.... 400-0. yea. ohhhhhhhh kay.

when the people stating that the record is legit have a vested interest in it, meaning their pocketbooks are enhanced by it, then there is very good reason to consider it as untrue....

not to mention, how can you respect a "record" when you know that a huge majority of it is based on competition against people of a far lesser caliber?
5/3/10 8:42 PM
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Nacirema
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Helio on Rickson's record

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy1oEk47_g
5/3/10 10:09 PM
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de braco
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Wasa-B - Here is your easy answer: No Moreira was not a world judo champ (at least I dont think so....98% sure).

Also, there is a Kano Cup. Name should ring a bell. There was also a Okano (early world champ iirc) but dont think there is a cup/tourn named after him

 iirc, it was the Isao Okano tournament Moreira claimed to have won. I remember Okano being known for training lots of foreigners in japan.
5/4/10 2:08 AM
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judom
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The ways of the BJJ ninjas are unpredictable !

They all have 1000-0 records, as they count their sparring sessions as well, they all win international judo medals...but when we try to check anything on the official judo site: www.judoinside.com, NOTHING comes up.

This BJJ is such a McDojo and is worse than Karate in the 80's. They practice 3x a week and win international judo matches. They only reason Rickson did not win the Olympics is because he did want to embarrass everyone.

But I understand Rickson, I would also prefer to beat up on YMCA judokas to pad my fake record than to really enter international judo tournaments and find yourself looking at the ceiling of the ambulance.

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