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Wrestling UnderGround >> BJJ / Wrestling questions


1/10/10 6:52 PM
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lelo
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my background is straight up BJJ. never wrestled in my life so i have no clue regarding the technicalities of wrestling. my son, who is 14 years old, decided to wrestle this season, his first time ever, and i'm really proud that he's now addicted to it. only lost once(out of 10 or so matches so far), and most of these are pins. he got an excellent base and outstanding balance, not to mention strength, which i believe helps him a lot.
i've been going to all the matches, and since i have bjj background i see some of the stuff from a different perspective. i see a lot of instances where bjj can be utilized, i.e., sweeps and perhaps submissions?
i do roll with him, and show him some of what i think he can use in the competition (btw, he never did any bjj before), i'm worried that he might get disqualified. my question goes to some of you that has done both:

1)what bjj moves can i show him that he could use?

2)are there any bjj subs that are in wrestling comps (he "submitted" two of his opponents with what he called the banana split)

an help and comments would be greatly appreciated. really psyched that my boy is addicted to this..
1/11/10 12:26 AM
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HuntingtonPUNK
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you cant teach him anything straight BJJ that will improve his wrestling

you can confuse him and caused him to get mangled though

wrestling crosses well into BJJ, BJJ does not cross over to wrestling

period
1/11/10 9:59 PM
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lelo
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see what you're saying, HP... now, what about sweeps? wouldn't that help him in some situation?
1/12/10 5:33 PM
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HuntingtonPUNK
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no

you must be trolling
1/13/10 11:29 AM
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lelo
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nope, not trolling. been lurking here and first post here on wrestling ground. been trying to learn more about wrestling for my boy's sake. like i said, only grappling i know is bjj, so it's the only thing i can relate to.
1/13/10 3:32 PM
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KickinAus
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I disagree. A BJJ technique that can be used in wrestling is shrimping. It's great when a wrestler is trying to turn another wrestler. The bottom man can shrimp and then turn on his base. You obviously wouldn't want to shrimp into guard, but it's the same basic idea.

Another is the kimura from a simgle. If a wrestler shoots a single the defender can put a kimura on the outside arm of the shooting wrestler. The wrestler is allows to keep the kimura as long as there isn't any pressure on the shoulder. I wouldn't keep it though, I'd use it to sprawl and spin around to score the two. I've never used it in a match, but I have seen wrestlers use it.
1/13/10 4:19 PM
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lelo
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thx KickinAus, the type of info i need! please keep it coming. when me and my son free roll, there's a lot of ï wonder if you can use this?" since i use a lot of foot hooks for sweeps, i was wondering as well why it's not used (hooking the inside thighs with foot to reverse/sweep) in comps, i.e. picture me on my left elbow, hooking my opponent's left thigh with my right foot to sweep him to his back...
1/13/10 5:21 PM
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KickinAus
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lelo - sweeps would work on relatively new wrestlers, but there is no way a good wrestler is getting swept. There's just too much leverage/balance/pressure going on when one wrestler is on top to get swept. When you sweep someone you leave a lot of "doors" open to get turned. They'll end up getting back points so it's not worth it. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I just think it's unlikely.

One thing I do teach my wrestlers is when one guy is riding legs on you and they get a little sloppy and they try to reach over your head you can use the rear naked choke defense to create a scramble. (ie: grab arm, pull it with two hands to the side of your head, spin inside his guard, now you're on top)

The scramble will normally score you at least 1, but most of the time you get 2 for a reversal because you end up on top of the other wrestler.

Hope this helps.
1/14/10 12:46 PM
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lelo
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thx again KA. yeah, i guess that's where i thought sweeps can be utilized; in that he is still in junior high and not too many experienced wrestlers. on the other hand, we went to a match last night with high school kids, and yes, the pace is indeed much faster. i can definitely show him the shrimp drill, and the escape you mentioned. i guess rolling with me might teach him some bad habits, but i hope he does pick up on other stuff like bases and stuff. again thanks for your input. hope some other members put their input as well...
1/14/10 3:04 PM
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de braco
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KickinAus - I disagree. A BJJ technique that can be used in wrestling is shrimping. It's great when a wrestler is trying to turn another wrestler. The bottom man can shrimp and then turn on his base. You obviously wouldn't want to shrimp into guard, but it's the same basic idea.

Another is the kimura from a simgle. If a wrestler shoots a single the defender can put a kimura on the outside arm of the shooting wrestler. The wrestler is allows to keep the kimura as long as there isn't any pressure on the shoulder. I wouldn't keep it though, I'd use it to sprawl and spin around to score the two. I've never used it in a match, but I have seen wrestlers use it.


Shrimping is a bjj technique now? Dave Shultz used a kimura,called a double wrist lock in wrestling,to throw opponents all the time
1/14/10 4:31 PM
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KickinAus
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de braco - Shrimping is a bjj technique now? Dave Shultz used a kimura,called a double wrist lock in wrestling,to throw opponents all the time


What would you classify it as? The first time I learned it was in my first day of BJJ. So that's why I consider it a BJJ move.
1/14/10 7:45 PM
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de braco
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I learned to shrimp in peewee wrestling,shrimping is a wrestling term
1/14/10 9:19 PM
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KickinAus
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de braco - It's good to know that I was at least teaching my wrestlers right then. Down here in FL I haven't been around a coach that uses that term. Thanks for the insight.
1/18/10 11:38 PM
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Wet
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#1 rule of wrestling: Stay off your back

#1 rule of BJJ: Stay off your stomach

Thats pretty conflicting. The best thing you can do is leave him alone
1/19/10 2:19 PM
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lelo
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true...
season's almost over anyways. with his new background in wrestling, i reckon his transition to bjj would be seamless. now that he has an idea of grappling, i'm gonna start him after this season is over. he should be ready...
1/28/10 2:01 AM
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laqueus
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de braco - I learned to shrimp in peewee wrestling,shrimping is a wrestling term


I doubt it's in the same fashion as in BJJ.
1/28/10 2:01 AM
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laqueus
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Wet - #1 rule of wrestling: Stay off your back

#1 rule of BJJ: Stay off your stomach

Thats pretty conflicting. The best thing you can do is leave him alone


BJJ allows you to be face down though, just not flat out. Turtle guard might be useful.
1/28/10 5:44 AM
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de braco
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We shrimped from one end of the matt to the other,then back again.Fujiwara shows shrimping drills on the submission master tapes
1/28/10 6:38 AM
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lelo
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wow, grappled with my son yesterday since i promised him he get to embarrassed me in front of his teammates if he win the comp last saturday. the rule was:
one 5 min round, all i have to do was survive his mauling. he can submit or pin me, but the pin has to be three counts. i'm prolly 25 pounds heavier, but he's very muscular and freakishly strong (he's 14). the only thing i'm allowed are two things, arm bar on his right arm, and RNC.
it was my chance to see if some of the sweeps i was talking about earlier in this post help. i found out that tho it helped somewhat, it's not like in bjj that it can change the tide. caught his arm a few times, but didn't go for the armbar, just simulated, since it was his day, lol. he "pinned" me with 22 sec left. but other than that it was cool to do a demo in front of his team on how father/son were going at it.
now i really know wrestling is badass!!!

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