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JKD UnderGround >> Teri Tom's new book


1/28/10 2:05 AM
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laqueus
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I'm sure there's a thread on this already, but I can't search, being a mudnamer.

I had a chance to flip through it in Chapters, but nothing in detail. I have read The Straight Lead cover to cover though.

The specific question I've got is about the action shots, in The Straight Lead everything seemed to be done with high speed photography. The new one seems to be some on and some off. Anyone have both side by side to see if the high speed photos are just from the original shooting?

Beyond that, thoughts?
2/2/10 8:53 AM
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SidRon
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What is the name of her new book? I have read her straight lead book three or four times. It is really good.
2/2/10 4:32 PM
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laqueus
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Jeet Kune Do: The Arsenal of Self Expression
2/10/10 8:36 PM
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HEMAN
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Can she apply what she is using? Unless she has sparring videos...I don't care much for demos.
2/11/10 9:20 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Edited: 02/11/10 9:20 AM
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 Search Amazon and Google books. There are some reviews.

The biggest critiques are:
1. Dogmatism to the BL 'credo' as she understands it.
2. Bitter remarks about others (I assume the JKD nucleus guys)
3. Poor defensive form, no real boxing ability
4. A bit of hubris on her part.
---------

Having said that, IMO, the understanding and development of a straight lead is very important and one must use a variety of sources to help gain the knowledge and training needed to develop it.

If the 'lead' is not your game (i.e. Joe Frazier's, counter punchers), then it's good to understand it from a counter-offensive POV.

Study her first book, look at Legacy of Steel, look at fencing books, study Dempsey, and go get the vids put out by Rodney King to develop your basic defense.

IMO, even if a book or vid has only a kernel of truth, find that and absorb the knowledge.

I don't know if the book came with a DVD or a web link to live techniques, but if it didn't she wasted a potential resource. Nobody should be posting MMA or fighting stuff without showing the 'alive' version of what they are espousing. If you can't afford a DVD, put a link to your website and have vids linked up from Youtube.

$0.02

 
2/11/10 10:25 AM
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laqueus
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I had a chance to read through it a bit more, and yeah I can see some of that. Of course some people are going to get upset about what she has to say, and others will love it. What I like is the fact that she's traced everything already, after reading The Straight Lead I got my hands on Dempsey's book, and later Haislet's (Driscoll's has still escaped me). On the flip side, she specifically comments that there's no grappling in what Bruce Lee developed, even though unquestionably he would have incorporated it. I also wonder about the deal with Ted Wong - Teri keeps saying he's the most qualified one to speak on the topic of JKD, but Lee clearly passed that on to Dan Inosanto as well (and one other person?). Ted Wong mentioned he had no martial arts experience going in to JKD, so that could also explain why his ideas might be different between the two of them, and it sure as hell doesn't help that there's the in-fighting going on.

I wonder about the comments about no boxing ability. If what she learned was from Ted Wong, who only learned those sets of techniques from Bruce Lee, and didn't learn boxing first... why would she have boxing ability? She's not a boxer obviously. The politics isn't something I really want to get into deep discussion about as it'll go nowhere, but that's something I'm curious about.

Also, what's the deal with the poor defensive form? Is that based on boxing as well, or on something else?
2/11/10 7:30 PM
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HEMAN
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Unless there is sparring footage of her in action. Who can tell???
2/11/10 8:00 PM
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Rob Lee
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If you read Mr. Wong's interpretation of JKD in the book he co-authored with William Cheung, or at least scan the pictures, you will see that, at least at some point, Mr. Wong considered grappling, and trapping for that matter, part of JKD. While the trapping has been later framed as demonstrated only for historical significance, the claim that there was no grappling is incongruent with Mr. Wong's publications. Various throws, sweeps, chokes and locks are demonstrated as part of the JKD arsenal. They resemble techniques from judo, japanese jiujitsu and chinese arts (coincidentally resembling kali/silat, but that's another post).

While I think Ms. Tom's break down of the sequence of movements is very good, the photos of her sparring are not always congruent with the written content of the book. In general, on technical points, it's very good. I think that the WNG's break down is better for me, and consonant with the way that Guro Dan explained the straight lead (and several other's in his lineage).

The overall best aspect of Ms. Tom's book is that she spent a great amount of effort detailing a technique that many other sources ignore, under incorporate or demonstrate great error. If you can get past the politics, and incorporate the useful material within a more comprehensive tactical arsenal, it's pretty good.
2/11/10 8:20 PM
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laqueus
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I'm not talking about The Straight Lead - that's her old book. I'm talking about The Arsenal of Self Expression.

But, interesting about the JKD/WC book. I'll have to take a look at that out of interest's sake. From a practical standpoint it doesn't matter though. Eventually Bruce would have included grappling.
2/11/10 8:54 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Edited: 02/11/10 8:55 PM
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 Ok, don't want to sound pedantic but as I've said many times here...(smile). After he left Jesse Glover and James DeMile, BL started 'hiding' (and changing) his Jun Fan. He didn't show the double pak sao (just an example) and he 'forbid' Guro Dan from teaching certain stuff. According to some, Dan didn't even get the 'real stuff'. I can see this - Guro Dan is a phenom in his own right.

He came into our gym to give a seminar in 1982-3, and this big bodybuilder guy, nice dude, saw him go into the floor area. This guy turned a bit pale, and looked at me and said 'that dude could kill you'. I mean it completely blew me away because he didn't know who Dan was.

But, anyway...BL did not give out the build up of his stuff to his guys either (after the Seattle and Oakland days) about 1964-5. James Yimm Lee, who co-authored w/BL was prob. the last guy whom BL shared his whole 'iceberg'. The guys after that, got the tip, but not the base.

So when later students got it, it was considerably watered down, but still had some good stuff. Without BL's bridge, and pak, and incredible 0-60mph burst speed, nobody can really pull it off. They can do the external stuff but that's it.

One or two guys think they are close and Jesse touted the guy from England as being nearly as fast as BL. (Tommy Carruthers). I'm not hugely impressed by Tommy, though he is quick. ymmv.

Another little known guy Alfonzo Tamez was thought to be as good as BL. Also mentioned in the same discussions, Master Sonny Umpad (dec.). Tamez was instrumental in bringing Krabi-Krabong to the US. A quick story on Alfonzo. Two guys were doing sticks in this gym and AT walked by and was watching this. (My instructor saw it). They asked him if he wanted to spar. Tamez simply did a figure-8 with his stick.

He zinged it to such a degree, my instructor said it sounded like a small plane revving up. The two guys just dropped their jaws and didn't say a word. Alfonzo smiled and left to go home.

Anyway, just rambling...haha.

 
2/11/10 9:23 PM
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laqueus
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What were the things he forbid Dan from teaching? Is there somewhere to read up on that?
2/12/10 9:08 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Link

BLACK BELT: Were there certain topics you learned from Lee, but couldn't impart to the other students?

INOSANTO: There were 13 things I could teach on the classical list, and that was it. He used to say that under no circumstances could I teach double pak sao (slap block). Pak sao bil jee (slap block/ finger jab) and pak sao lop sao (slap block/grabbing hand) were big, big secrets. He was the head man, so I kept it exactly the way he wanted me to teach it.
-----

Thing is, it wouldn't have really done anyone any good. Without the structure and the hip torque, they wouldn't be able to use it. But BL thought someone else might see it and use them.


2/12/10 9:57 AM
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laqueus
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That's quite enlightening. I'm kinda surprised that Bruce did that, and makes me think that he really wasn't the father of MMA.

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