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Australasia UnderGround >> Referees / Staff Members wanted for Vic Champs


2/16/10 1:08 AM
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angus friend
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Hi everyone,

Please see the message below taken from afbjj.com and know that we are looking for staff members from ALL academies, likewise referees.

Staff members don't even need an affiliation with a club - they can be friends, family members, people who are curious and prepared to trade a couple of hours of their time for free entry - ANYONE (reliable)!!

Anyone is welcome to attend the referees' seminar that we'll conduct at the Peter de Been St Kilda academy on Wednesday March 17 from 7pm. We spend most of our time discussing the finer point-scoring details, and try to iron out a few of those grey areas contained in the rules. First time refs will probably shadow a more senior ref for their first couple of hours on the day, and then work in conjunction with a senior ref for the remainder of the day. (Ie, maybe swapping one for one.) Even those curious about the rules who might not want to ref this time are welcome. Have a read of this before you come down:

http://www.afbjj.com/2009%20comprules.pdf

Please spread the word amongst your team mates. It's better for everyone if we can share the work around!

Thanks a lot,
Angus Friend
AFBJJ Head Referee


***********************************************************



STAFF AND REFEREES FOR 2010 VIC CHAMPIONSHIP

Anyone interested in staffing - time keeping, marshaling, presentation etc should contact Nic at staff@afbjj.com
Anyone interested in refereeing should contact Angus at referee@afbjj.com
All staff and referees will receive free venue entry, Tshirt, drinks and snacks, $50 Fightgear.com.au voucher.

All referees will also receive free competitors entry if applicable.

Be an integral part of this great sport with the best seats in the house!
3/8/10 4:43 PM
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angus friend
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Just a reminder fellas, still looking for refs and staff. We have a dozen refs registered already but really I'd like to see 18 or so, so that the same people aren't getting stuck on the mats all day.

Free competitor entry for referees!!
3/8/10 9:12 PM
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PeterIrl
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Does that mean that there's a possibility that some ref's on the day will not have any practical bjj experience?
3/11/10 6:53 AM
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geraldbb
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No Peter, all the referee's are credible BJJ guys, usually of senior rank and experience.

You don't need to understand BJJ to hold a stopwatch though, and it's the best seat in the house.

For everyone else reading this far;

I highly recommend refereeing and judging to anyone seriously interested in BJJ. I learn something new every time I do it, and there have been plenty. Everybody thinks they know the rules until they have to interpret and apply them under pressure. It can be a tough and thankless job, but without people willing to step up and be involved, the sport withers and dies.

Don't be one of the moron's heckling from the stands, if you think you know better, prove it.

Best regards,

Gerald.
3/11/10 7:26 PM
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Hodgeny
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Hi Gerald,

I may be a moron in the stands, but I disagree mate. The referring that I've seen at the Pan Pacs has been the worst of any comp in Australia, easily.

And I'm not talking about inexperience refs making mistakes, all refs will make mistakes.

I'm talking about them not knowing basic rules. For example, last time I was there (2008) several refs gave 2 points when a person goes from being mounted to a closed guard. Also things like giving 4 points for a guard pass ... things like that.

I would happily referee -- if I got paid for it ... 600-odd competitors at $100 a pop is $60k. Plus there are sponsors and spector fees. So surely this argument of "refs aren't covered by insurance" could be fixed uprading the insurance? Every other major comp pays their refs, so I don't see this issue anyway.

Let's see what happens next week ...

Rodney
3/12/10 3:29 PM
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4Fingers
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Well said Gerald. Too many people keen to hurl abuse, not prepared to step up! I would be interested to see whether refs from other amateur combat sports get paid, judo, Tkd, karate?? Anyone know? Or do they do it for the love of the sport? I don't know why Bjj people all seem to think people owe them something, prizes, money etc. They don't get prizes at judo nationals to my knowledge, just the prestige!! Isn't that enough?
3/12/10 4:56 PM
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Tycinio
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Well it only costs about $30 to enter a Judo tournament, and the Judo organisers don't go home with $50,000 in their pockets either.

I don't think a little to help the refs who are on the mat all day is to much to ask. They do a fantastic job, as is it a hard, thankless job. So instaed of pete pocketing tens of thousands of dollars, he could look after the guys that allow the tournament to actually run, instaed of just helping himself.
3/12/10 11:33 PM
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moles
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Tycinio - Well it only costs about $30 to enter a Judo tournament, and the Judo organisers don't go home with $50,000 in their pockets either.

I don't think a little to help the refs who are on the mat all day is to much to ask. They do a fantastic job, as is it a hard, thankless job. So instaed of pete pocketing tens of thousands of dollars, he could look after the guys that allow the tournament to actually run, instaed of just helping himself.

lol, you really think Pete goes home with ten of thousands in his pocket? $50,000? Its only in the last few years he's actually broken even. Prior to that he was out of pocket a couple of thousand. I don't think all the people complaining now were so concerned then.

I'm not saying that the refs shouldn't be paid something, if there not competing and therefore saving entry costs, I'm just saying I think your mistaken if you think Pete goes home with tens of thousands in his pocket at the end of the day.

I've seen some mistakes in reffing, but I've never seen anything as bad as what Rodney describes. Hopefully the standard gets better.
3/13/10 4:55 AM
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byron2001
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I think the sport of BJJ in Australia has now certainly progressed to the point of paying referee's. Anyone who disagrees is nuts, just do the math!
3/13/10 5:38 AM
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joemasepoos
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I agree with Rodney .
3/13/10 5:41 AM
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joemasepoos
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4Fingers - Well said Gerald. Too many people keen to hurl abuse, not prepared to step up! I would be interested to see whether refs from other amateur combat sports get paid, judo, Tkd, karate?? Anyone know? Or do they do it for the love of the sport? I don't know why Bjj people all seem to think people owe them something, prizes, money etc. They don't get prizes at judo nationals to my knowledge, just the prestige!! Isn't that enough?


What ??!!
3/13/10 10:52 PM
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Tycinio
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lol, you really think Pete goes home with ten of thousands in his pocket? $50,000? Its only in the last few years he's actually broken even. Prior to that he was out of pocket a couple of thousand. I don't think all the people complaining now were so concerned then.

I actually just used Rodneys number and minused ten grand, but his maths aren't too far off.

As far as out of pocket and break even. You are either joking or retarded. Can you please tell us all the expenses that all that money goes too?

Mats are sponsored by Zebra, medals are bought in bulk and don't have a year on them so they can be used until they run out, time keepers, scorers and refs don't get paid. Msac is about $1000 rent a day. I know because I used to work for that company. Even if it doubled since I worked for them, it's still stuff all. So can you please fill me in on all of the other expenses?

Also don't forget the income from spectators and team affiliation cost.
3/14/10 12:35 AM
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moles
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Tycinio - lol, you really think Pete goes home with ten of thousands in his pocket? $50,000? Its only in the last few years he's actually broken even. Prior to that he was out of pocket a couple of thousand. I don't think all the people complaining now were so concerned then.

I actually just used Rodneys number and minused ten grand, but his maths aren't too far off.

As far as out of pocket and break even. You are either joking or retarded. Can you please tell us all the expenses that all that money goes too?

Mats are sponsored by Zebra, medals are bought in bulk and don't have a year on them so they can be used until they run out, time keepers, scorers and refs don't get paid. Msac is about $1000 rent a day. I know because I used to work for that company. Even if it doubled since I worked for them, it's still stuff all. So can you please fill me in on all of the other expenses?

Also don't forget the income from spectators and team affiliation cost.

I don't really know anything about how much it costs to run these competitions to be honest, I was just told for the first few years he was making a loss. I guess it wasn't being managed very well if this was the case.

Do refs typically get paid in judo and other martial arts comps? I wouldn't know. I know they get paid in Sydney bjj comps. If their not saving $100 odd in entry fees then I think they should be paid if this is the norm elsewhere.
3/14/10 8:47 AM
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geraldbb
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Rodney, no offence meant by my post, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

I don't disagree that the standard of refereeing could be a lot better, but my opinion is that there is room for improvement everywhere I look, at every competition I attend.

I got into refereeing initially because of this, as I arrogantly thought I could do better. That hasn't always been the case and I make mistakes same as anybody else, and have had them pointed out by more senior belts. Daniel Lima springs to mind at the last Pan Pacs, and I learnt some new interpretations to rules I thought I understood perfectly.

The money thing is by the way for me, I honestly don't care one or the other. I think we should be paid, but I don't let that stop me getting involved.

To be fair to you, and to a lot of other senior belts who choose not to referee; I don't run a school, and don't turn up to competitions with an army of students who have paid for, and deserve the absolute attention of their coach. So I am able to give my time to whoever is running the competition to help out.

I think improving the BJJ refereeing in Australia is something best done from the inside out. That is; being directly involved and educating other trying to do the same thing.

Thanks for your feedback, it's good to see some geniune debate on this forum again, I almost never post here anymore and thought this place had died a natural death.

Respectfully,

Gerald
3/18/10 3:53 AM
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haunted
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Edited: 03/18/10 3:56 AM
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Hey Tycinio, that's business mate!

Pete puts alot of time and effort into running the AFBJJ year in year out! Considering the amount of clubs that are now members and are more than happy to sit back and let him do all of the work, I think he's entitled to his payday!

If you don't like it, don't be a part of it mate, start your own federation. Maybe then you might realize that it does actually require ALOT of work!

P.s. You imply that people should work for nothing,if you believe this, I'll give you a job tomorrow :-)

Haunted
3/18/10 4:02 AM
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RobMcKenzie
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I don't think it's anyone's business about how much he profits, and the more he does profit, more power to him.
I do think however that it is obvious that he can certainly afford to pay the referees for their work on the day (as they do in every other major comp in both the States and Brasil).

Haunted,
I really don't think anyone is 'sitting back and letting him do the hard work'. You can't have one person running a 'federation', and i think the sport has grown enough in the last few years that it would be in BJJ's best interests to have a few different instructors from various affiliations possibly form some sort of 'board', as what a federation should be.

In regards to the reffing, i think its great having 'shadow refs' to watch the newer guys, but i really think there should be some sort of minimum belt requirement before being able to ref matches, with or without supervision (purple or brown at least i would think).
Last comp i saw numerous white and blue belts reffing, and i just dont think that's fair on people paying a considerable amount of money to have someone so inexperienced ref their fights, and as i've seen time and time again make basic errors that cost people matches.
3/18/10 7:56 AM
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Tycinio
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haunted - Hey Tycinio, that's business mate!

Pete puts alot of time and effort into running the AFBJJ year in year out! Considering the amount of clubs that are now members and are more than happy to sit back and let him do all of the work, I think he's entitled to his payday!

If you don't like it, don't be a part of it mate, start your own federation. Maybe then you might realize that it does actually require ALOT of work!

P.s. You imply that people should work for nothing,if you believe this, I'll give you a job tomorrow :-)

Haunted


For the record, I have no problem with him making money. Good for him. He has built it up for a long time. My issue is that plenty of other people put in a lot of time and effort, and also cop a lot of abuse while reffing and get nothing.

Also, you stupid P.s. point actually proves my point. I don't think people should 'work for nothing', thats sort of my whole point! :)
3/18/10 8:43 PM
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haunted
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Rob McK, yes I was a little hasty with that statement, there certainly are other representatives for each state who also put in time and effort, apologies if they may be reading this..

Tycinio, AFBJJ refs have their entry fees waivered which can be anywhere from $60 up to $120 or so depending on the amount of categories they enter, they also recieve a $50 fight gear voucher along with T-shirts drinks etc..mate it's better than pushing trolleys at coles for a day!

Shout out to the 97kg Browns, see you on the mat in an hour..!!

3/19/10 5:37 AM
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moles
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So what did you guys think about the reffing today? Mat I was on had some pretty poor mistakes made.
3/20/10 3:17 PM
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4Fingers
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Which mat number was that? I was on mat 3 all day sat and am interested in any feedback. Be nice ; )
3/21/10 12:19 AM
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moles
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Edited: 03/21/10 12:39 AM
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It was mat 4 on Fri. The dude thought a sweep from half guard was just an advantage. He was later told it was 2 points. I actually don't think it ended up causing any problems luckely. There was one guy complaining after his match cause he lost on a appalling decision though. Anyway, overall I really enjoyed the event as always.
3/21/10 3:52 AM
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AlexGilmour
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Less than impressed with some of the decisions.
3/22/10 1:18 AM
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Mr Dooley
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AlexGilmour - Less than impressed with some of the decisions.



this
3/22/10 10:30 AM
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RobMcKenzie
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There were 5 different instances of people i know getting scratched from categories without being warned. 3 times they didnt even call their name, and those people were sitting right near the officials desk the whole time waiting to go on.
No refund, nothing.
Terrible.
3/22/10 5:58 PM
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charleschoi
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4Fingers,

I was competing on Mat 3 on Saturday, and if you're the guy I'm thinking of, you refereed three of my fights on Saturday.

I feel you did a good job, and your interpretations of the rules were exactly in line with what I understand from my experience (e.g. takedown points not given due to continuous movement by my opponent into sweeping action).

Well done. I realise it's a difficult job.

-Charles

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