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Health & Medical UnderGround >> Is Type 2 Diabetes reversible?


2/22/10 10:33 PM
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groundfighter2000
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Is Type 2 Diabetes reversible?
2/23/10 1:20 AM
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Bolo
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Yes.
2/24/10 5:00 PM
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Charlie Gordon
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as reversible as AIDS
2/24/10 9:32 PM
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Horus2001
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per wiki:

Prevention
Onset of type 2 diabetes can often be delayed through proper nutrition and regular exercise.[18]

Interest has arisen in preventing diabetes due to research on the benefits of treating patients before overt diabetes. Although the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force concluded that "the evidence is insufficient to recommend for or against routinely screening asymptomatic adults for type 2 diabetes, impaired glucose tolerance, or impaired fasting glucose,"[19][20] this was a grade I recommendation when published in 2003. However, the USPSTF does recommend screening for diabetics in adults with hypertension or hyperlipidemia (grade B recommendation).

In 2005, an evidence report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality concluded that "there is evidence that combined diet and exercise, as well as drug therapy (metformin, acarbose), may be effective at preventing progression to DM in IGT subjects".[21]

Milk has also been associated with the prevention of diabetes. A questionnaire study was done by Choi et al. of 41,254 men which including a 12 year follow up showed this association. In this study, it was found that diets high in low-fat dairy might lower the risk of type 2 diabetes in men. Even though these benefits are being considered linked to milk consumption, the effect of diet is only one factor that is affecting the body’s overall health.[22]


for really fat people, there has been success with gastric bypass:

Gastric bypass surgery
Gastric Bypass procedures are currently considered an elective procedure with no universally accepted algorithm to decide who should have the surgery. In the diabetic patient, certain types result in 99-100% prevention of insulin resistance and 80-90% clinical resolution or remission of type 2 diabetes. In 1991, the NIH (National Institutes of Health) Consensus Development Conference on Gastrointestinal Surgery for Obesity proposed that the body mass index (BMI) threshold to consider surgery should drop from 40 to 35 in the appropriate patient. More recently, the American Society for Bariatric Surgery (ASBS) and the ASBS Foundation suggested that the BMI threshold be lowered to 30 in the presence of severe co-morbidities.[61] Debate has flourished about the role of gastric bypass surgery in type 2 diabetics since the publication of The Swedish Obese Subjects Study. The largest prospective series showed a large decrease in the occurrence of type 2 diabetes in the post-gastric bypass patient at both 2 years (odds ratio was 0.14) and at 10 years (odds ratio was 0.25).[62]
4/5/11 10:30 AM
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john joe
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my father was diagnosed with type 2 a couple of years ago; he totally switched up his diet, started walking a few miles every morning, cut out the sugar and beer, when he had a follow up a year later he was given the all-clear. He also lost a good few dozen pounds
4/6/11 9:45 AM
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Seong gyeong
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From what I've read, Turducken is correct. It takes discipline and nutritional excellence, but it can be done....if the one suffering really wants it.
4/10/11 8:57 AM
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PunchDrunkDoc
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 It depends on what you mean by "reversible" - While diet and excercise can return blood sugar readings to normal the underlying problem insulin resistance is not.... and here is why that matters.
Insulin resistance means you have to produce excess insulin to process your carbohydrate intake.  If your pancrease can keep up with the demand the blood sugar reading will remain normal, BUT the effects of the excess insulin are still present. Most importantly are the changes that occur to the endothelium (lining of the arteries).  Even if your glucose levels normalize the endothelium is inflamed making it much more able to accumulate lipid filled plaques that are at risk for ruptue.  When these plaques rupture that float downstream and cause heart attacks and strokes.  Someone with insulin resistance is at equal risk for a heart attack as a non-diabetic patient who has already had a heart attack.
So - while the glucose levels in DM-II can be reversed the cardiovascular risks associated with it remain and should be treated agressively.  The good news is the microvascular risks (kidney damage, retinal damage, infection risk etc) are reduced with normal glucose readings.
4/11/11 12:21 PM
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U4EA
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It's the old/new carbs thing - you dont need 'em, really. Most peoples diets, even "healthy" ones, are too insulinogenic.
4/27/11 10:51 PM
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fearOfABlackPlanet
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I had it/have it and was told I would be insulin dependent, this was October. I almost died before I knew I had it. I was in the ICU for days on IV insulin. I have lost 100 lbs since then and no longer have high blood sugar no matter what I eat or drink, also, I take no medication. I was able to cease metformin about 1 and 1/2 months after being diagnosed.


So to me, you can reverse it, as far as being insulin resistant I don't know. I do feel like dog shit when I eat sugar, which could be excess insulin I guess. I also had to give up beer, pretty much for good, but I don't really miss it anymore.
5/29/11 10:55 PM
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armbarring
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traneufcisback - No, as PunchDrunkDoc has pointed out it is NOT reversible, but controllable.

For the average person, all you generally need to do is this:

1) Keep weight under control
2)Exercise regularly
3) Eat less sugar, and choose whole grains over white flour, in correct portion sizes.



So im Summary dont be a fat asshole. :)
6/11/11 9:55 AM
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Seul
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fearofblackplanet - that is awesome man, good job!

THe increased resistance to insulin is thought to be from oversaturation of the relevant receptors; if you constantly eat too much sugar, you always have abnormally high amounts of insulin getting secreted in response, and over time the receptors start to respond less and less well to a given amount of insulin. This is why your blood sugar begins to rise and eventually you are classified as "type 2 diabetic" instead of "prediabetic".

IF you stop overdoing it with sugar and lose weight, your body will secrete MUCH less insulin (because it won't need as much) and in time your resistance to insulin will decrease.

YOu will never be un-diagnosed with type 2, but you will functionally NOT be a diabetic anymore and your blood sugar will be largely normal. This is HUGELY important, as all the long term complications of diabetes come about because of chronically elevated blood sugar.

IF you're diagnosed with type 2, follow fearofblackplanet's example and you probably won't get your feet cut off because of circulatory problems/gangrene, go blind, or die young from coronary artery disease or kidney failure (and your won't get erectile dysfunction!).

I'm a type 1 diabetic (insulin-dependent, the type that is largely genetic in origin), and the three things traneUFCisback mentioned are HUGE for me. I also think you need to just get used to eating less in general, though, as any sort of deficit between insulin function and dietary intake is going to be correspondingly lower if you are eating as much (arbitrarily, 25% of 5 is less than 25% of 60).

I also can't say enough about exercising EVERY SINGLE DAY. Exercise enhances the uptake of glucose by skeletal muscle for about 24-48 hours, and I can see a HUGE difference in my control when I get some sort of exercise for at least 30 minutes to an hour every single day (even just going for a walk).


Your quality of life immediately improves when you get this stuff under control, too; when my blood sugar is high I can't concentrate very well, I feel shitty, I'm fatigued, and everything seems a little bit harder. If you've rcently been diagnosed with type 2, trying to implement some of these changes will IMMEDIATELY (like within an hour or a day or two) improve everything about your day to day function in your life.
6/11/11 9:55 AM
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Seul
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fearofblackplanet - that is awesome man, good job!

THe increased resistance to insulin is thought to be from oversaturation of the relevant receptors; if you constantly eat too much sugar, you always have abnormally high amounts of insulin getting secreted in response, and over time the receptors start to respond less and less well to a given amount of insulin. This is why your blood sugar begins to rise and eventually you are classified as "type 2 diabetic" instead of "prediabetic".

IF you stop overdoing it with sugar and lose weight, your body will secrete MUCH less insulin (because it won't need as much) and in time your resistance to insulin will decrease.

YOu will never be un-diagnosed with type 2, but you will functionally NOT be a diabetic anymore and your blood sugar will be largely normal. This is HUGELY important, as all the long term complications of diabetes come about because of chronically elevated blood sugar.

IF you're diagnosed with type 2, follow fearofblackplanet's example and you probably won't get your feet cut off because of circulatory problems/gangrene, go blind, or die young from coronary artery disease or kidney failure (and your won't get erectile dysfunction!).

I'm a type 1 diabetic (insulin-dependent, the type that is largely genetic in origin), and the three things traneUFCisback mentioned are HUGE for me. I also think you need to just get used to eating less in general, though, as any sort of deficit between insulin function and dietary intake is going to be correspondingly lower if you are eating as much (arbitrarily, 25% of 5 is less than 25% of 60).

I also can't say enough about exercising EVERY SINGLE DAY. Exercise enhances the uptake of glucose by skeletal muscle for about 24-48 hours, and I can see a HUGE difference in my control when I get some sort of exercise for at least 30 minutes to an hour every single day (even just going for a walk).


Your quality of life immediately improves when you get this stuff under control, too; when my blood sugar is high I can't concentrate very well, I feel shitty, I'm fatigued, and everything seems a little bit harder. If you've rcently been diagnosed with type 2, trying to implement some of these changes will IMMEDIATELY (like within an hour or a day or two) improve everything about your day to day function in your life.
6/15/11 7:56 PM
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myblood04
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little bit off topic but I recently saw part of a Documentary "Transcendent Man" on Ray Kurzweil, whom mentions he completely reversed it by changing his diet, incorporating a healty exercise regimen and taking supplements. The Doc had basically told him he would need to begin taking insulin but sounds like he told them to fuck off and took matters into his own hands. only thing is If I remember corretly he was taking a SHITLOAD of pills daily.
6/17/11 12:55 AM
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PunchDrunkDoc
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 Again - let me stress:  The glucose levels and microvascular complications can be controlled with diet, excercise, wt loss.  This will significantly reduce the microvascular comlplications (renal disease, retinal disease, erectile dysfunction, amputations etc).  The endothelial dysfunction and macrovascular problems (HEART ATTACK AND STROKE RISK) remain and should be treated aggressively despite normal glucose readings.
6/17/11 12:58 AM
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PunchDrunkDoc
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....and since this thread started I have had one patient "cure" his diabetes.  He is a BJJ black belt -  his glucose reading were >500.  When he stopped taking his HGH analog injections his glucose reading return to normal.
I still do know exactly what he was injecting,  He ordered it online,
6/17/11 12:34 PM
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Seul
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"The endothelial dysfunction and macrovascular problems (HEART ATTACK AND STROKE RISK) remain and should be treated aggressively despite normal glucose readings."

For reals? I don't doubt what you're saying, this is just the first I've heard about it. Everything I've read so far indicated that the risk for all of the complications dimished correspondingly with better blood glucose maintenance, but I'm only in nursing school (not a doc) so my texts are not nearly as detailed as the real medical texts I've glanced at.

Would you mind elaborating on the pathophysiology of it? I have a clear (if basic) understanding of how high BG can cause most of the major complications, but I don't understand how the risk for macrovascular complications remains constant regardless of control (unless it's the damage done prior to diagnosis/treatment).
6/17/11 1:18 PM
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groundfighter2000
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PunchDrunkDoc -  Again - let me stress:  The glucose levels and microvascular complications can be controlled with diet, excercise, wt loss.  This will significantly reduce the microvascular comlplications (renal disease, retinal disease, erectile dysfunction, amputations etc).  The endothelial dysfunction and macrovascular problems (HEART ATTACK AND STROKE RISK) remain and should be treated aggressively despite normal glucose readings.


Does endotheial dysfunction and macrovascular problems go hand and hand with someone who is insulin resistant/type 2 diabetic?

And when you say "aggressive treament" does that entail prescribed meds for those issues?


I'm glad i started this thread, people have shared some good info.

Been worried about becoming type 2 for sometime now and im only 27. I don't want it to be a year from now diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and saying to myself "man i could have prevented this" Im In the process of unfatting myself though.
6/20/11 12:20 PM
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PunchDrunkDoc
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Does endotheial dysfunction and macrovascular problems go hand and hand with someone who is insulin resistant/type 2 diabetic?

And when you say "aggressive treament" does that entail prescribed meds for those issues?



 The endothelial dysfunction comes from inflammatory byproduct of insulin overpruduction (insulin derived growth factors, tnf-alpha, protien kinase-c activation and many others).

Treatment involves
1) use of a hmg-coA reductase inhibitor drug like lipitor or zocor (regardless of the cholesterol numbers - these meds smooth the endothelium and decrease inflamation in the arterial wall).
2) use of a angiotensin cenverting enzyme inhibitor drug - preferably Ramapril.  This comes from a pivitol trial inthe late 90's call the HOPE trial showing DM2 patients has significantly reduced cardiovasular event with ACE use and Ramapril was superior to other meds in this class at disease prevention (most likely die to the fact it has a much higher affinity for the endothelium than other drugs in its class).

These drugs are available in generic forms (lipitor will be generic in Sept) so they are not overly expensive, but you need to see a doctor and there must be some safety monitoring of blood work - usually 2 months after starting, 6 months, then annually.
6/24/11 6:44 AM
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U4EA
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/severe-low-calorie-diet-reverses-diabetes-231427394.html
6/24/11 11:24 AM
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Seong gyeong
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U4EA - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/severe-low-calorie-diet-reverses-diabetes-231427394.html


It sounds similar to a lot of what Dr. Joel Fuhrman writes about. Some write him off as a quack, but I actually agree with his core ideas regarding diet and disease.
7/6/11 3:44 PM
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comeacrossclean
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anyone heard of Dr. Gabriel Cousens? he believes in reversing diabetes(type 2) through a vegetarian diet. his book, "Reversing Diabetes in 21 Days" is a good read. look up some videos on Youtube to find more information on his Tree of Life programs. he even treats type 1 diabetics with the understanding it's not reversable but more manageable following healthy diet and exercise guidelines.
9/15/11 8:55 PM
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lockedandloaded
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 i have some stuff that i sell that is diabetic freindly and helps with it! check it out my freind was on this for 90 days and is off most of his prescription medicine! 
9/15/11 8:55 PM
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lockedandloaded
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www.codyland.bodybyvi.com

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