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4/6/10 3:34 PM
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Govnor
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 ttt
4/6/10 3:39 PM
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Pinback
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My god this Messi!
4/7/10 7:42 AM
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1 2 3 ACE
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ajc1984 - Messi is the best in the world and has the potential to go down as the greatest ever.

Ronaldo is a step or 2 behind him but also has the potential to join the list of all-time greats.

Rooney is in a group of players below those 2 who (as is the case this season) is able to elevate himself to near their level when performing at his absolute peak.

What Messi is doing right now we've not really seen anyone do since Maradona in his heydey. What Rooney is doing is a fairly regular occurrence. In fact every year in England we see a player hit a sustained run of good form and the English media rush to proclaim them the best in the world. This time last year it was Gerrard. The season before that it was Ronaldo and Torres. Who knows which Premiership player will be "the best player in the world" next season.

Rooney is a great player performing at a level far higher than any he's previously shown... and he's still being comfortably outshone by Messi. The boy is phenomenal.

You're right about the English media, particularly with Gerrard - he's a great player, but a grossly overrated one at times. And he's never done anything much in an England shirt. Only this time last year, I think you'll find the media favourite was Ronaldo, since he scored over 40 goals. Gerrard has had a very bad season but is playing in a piss-poor team in all fairness, you can see the frustration etched on his face, game after game.

But Rooney IS the real deal. He's not being outshone by anyone this season. Messi putting Arsenal's weak defence to the sword doesn't change anything. Silvestre was starting ffs!

Rooney destroyed Milan the other week in both legs, but we didn't get this overblown reaction to that... why not? Just like he's destroyed pretty much every other team he's faced. Yet he is only 'near their level when at his absolute peak'? Sorry but that's crap.

Plus as I've said before, just look at the teams they're playing in. Rooney has to play with Berbatov who sometimes cannot be bothered to run, Nani who is erratic and often doesn't turn up, Valencia who is also inconsistent, Scholes and Giggs are - as much as I love them - very nearly finished. Just look at the players Messi is playing with, there's no contest.
4/7/10 1:02 PM
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Govnor
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 123ACE - Rooney plays in one of the top teams in Europe, let's not make him out to be at West Ham!

Messi stands alone at the top of the Football world right now, only a very small percentage of footie fans would disagree with that. That does not take away from the fact that Rooney is also a great player.
4/8/10 8:43 AM
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1 2 3 ACE
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That is true Govnor, but I think without Rooney Manchester United wouldn't be anywhere near one of the best teams in Europe. For me, they're a side desperately in need of new blood in midfield.

This is just such a reactionary thing though. Did no-one see Messi in the group stages when he was rather pedestrian? Rooney is having a season that can hardly be bettered for me. People said Ronaldo's season last year couldn't be bettered, but he's done it. Scored and made all the goals and also brought things to his team that Ronaldo and Messi never could.

Again, I stress, Messi is a sensational player and you can easily make the argument that he's the best in the world. But on the basis of a very small period of time, people are claiming he's untouchable and definitely the best ever? Ridiculous.

I shouldn't complain though, it takes the pressure off Rooney before the World Cup to have everyone lavishing praise on Messi instead. That's if Ferguson doesn't play him through injury and cause him to miss out completely..
4/8/10 9:42 AM
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Govnor
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 1 2 3  - You say it's a reactionary thing, isn't that what you're doing with Rooney?
4/8/10 3:05 PM
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1 2 3 ACE
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Not really, I'm not claiming Rooney is definitely the best and head and shoulders ahead of everyone else, based on this last season. Though granted it's fair to say that Rooney has come a long way in the last year.

I'm just a little bemused because this time last season everyone was going crazy for Cristiano and saying he was the best in the world, now the same people are going mad for Messi and saying the same. Everyone has their opinions and it's difficult to rank players like these definitively. It just grates how someone is singled out and declared head and shoulders above the rest, when it's not the case.. Rooney, Messi and Ronaldo are all what you guys would call franchise players, I just get annoyed at the media hype directed towards whoever is in the best form.

There are actually people on our sports channels saying Messi is better than Maradona, presumably because of his recent form. It's time for them to take a step back with talk like that, Messi has hardly done a thing at international level (granted he hasn't had much chance) and yet he's being called the best player ever - it's crazy hype talk.
4/8/10 8:54 PM
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ajc1984
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Messi was already considered the best player in the world last season, which is why he won every major individual accolade on offer. It was the year before that Ronaldo held the title, after scoring 42 goals in a season.

Look at the ascendency of Messi like this:

As a teenager he was considered to be a phenomonal talent. By 20 he was one of the best players in the world. By 21 he was THE best player in the world and now at 22 he's so far ahead of his peers that people are instead comparing him to the greats of the past.

He won the FIFA World Player of the Year award by a landslide in 2009 and was runner up the 2 years before that. Barring a minor miracle he'll win it again this year. Rooney has never even been in contention. If anything is reactionary it's ranking Rooney up alongside Messi after 1 good season (by far his best ever) when in recent years it would have been laughable to do so.
4/9/10 3:46 AM
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PoundforPound
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You have to admit, that last game by Messi was sick.
4/9/10 9:51 AM
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1 2 3 ACE
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Edited: 04/09/10 9:53 AM
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Right you are on Cristiano, it was a couple of seasons back that he really tore it up, how time flies..

But how do you work out Rooney has only had one good season? And this hasn't just been a good season for him, it's been an exceptional one for anyone. My point is, everyone was raving about Cristiano being the best after that tremendous season he had, and Rooney's been even better than that this season (in a much, MUCH poorer Man Utd side), and it seems to go unnoticed. Yet if Messi tears Silvestre a new arsehole, people start claiming he's better than Maradona!

On that, I don't think Messi can be hailed on that level until he lights up a World Cup, he's almost completely unproven on that stage.

I wouldn't say it's ever been laughable to compare Rooney to Messi, since Rooney has always been a special player and always been a far more complete player than Messi.
4/9/10 10:13 AM
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Pinback
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"I wouldn't say it's ever been laughable to compare Rooney to Messi, since Rooney has always been a special player and always been a far more complete player than Messi."

Ok, now you lost me.
4/9/10 6:42 PM
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KingOfFighters
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lol@how delusional the english are
4/10/10 3:17 PM
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screwuguys
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KingOfFighters - lol@how delusional the english are

4/10/10 4:37 PM
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stinkman
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Watching El Clasico...Messi is just fucking amazing to watch. Seems like he outdoes himself every week.
4/10/10 4:53 PM
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1 2 3 ACE
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KingOfFighters - lol@how delusional the english are

Explain to me why Messi is better than Rooney then.

You know, actually make a point rather than acting the prick and shooting down the opinions of others. Didn't know I represented the entire nation of England, I'm just one man with an opinion.

On that last post of mine, if anyone doesn't realise that Rooney is a more complete player than Messi then it's time to give up. There's no debating that.
4/10/10 11:45 PM
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Jwizard
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Messi will not win the FIFA World Player of the Year unless Argentina wins the World Cup.

Historically, the best player on the World Cup winning team has won the WPOY in World Cup years.

1994 - Romario

1998 - Zidane

2002 - Ronaldo

2006 - Cannavaro

2010 - Best player on winning team


4/10/10 11:55 PM
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PoundforPound
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So we know Rooney for sure won't be winning FIFA Player of the Year then.
4/12/10 11:58 AM
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ajc1984
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I never said Rooney had only had one good season, I said this is the first season where people are making a case for him being the best player in the world (although most of that talk has subsided in recent weeks with even popular opinion in England shifting to crown Messi number 1).

I think you're overstating how good Rooney's season has been. Ronaldo 2 years ago scored 42 goals in a United team that won everything (bar the FA Cup). This year Rooney has 34 goals in a United team that looks likely to win nothing (bar the Carling Cup). In fact I saw a stat the other day that had Torres #1 in England in terms of goals per minutes played (with Rooney 2nd) and let's face it, Torres was widely considered to be the best striker in England over each of the previous 2 years so to even give Rooney that title is a bit contentious.

You also have to consider the quality of goals scored. Not only has Messi scored more goals than Rooney (6 more in 3 more games) and got more assists from a deeper, wider position, he's also scored BETTER goals. Messi has far more this season that were created through his own genius. Goals where he picks up the ball in seemingly non-threatening positions and creates a chance for himself when few other players on the planet would be capable of doing so. That's always going to be more impressive than scoring an unmarked header from inside the box, since it's such a rare and amazing talent to possess.

As I said in a previous post, Rooney is a world class player but he shares that status with a number of others, while Messi is on a level all of his own (at least in this generation).
4/21/10 10:38 AM
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1 2 3 ACE
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This is the problem though, if you just judge players on stats then you'll get a strange picture of the situation. You have to watch how they perform. Rooney for Man United this season has been far better than Ronaldo was in that season where they won the lot. It's a far worse United team, that's why they're not going to be winning as much. Players like Ronaldo and Messi are out for themselves, Rooney plays for the team, and works with the team in every phase of play - that's a huge factor that a manager looks at in a player, and that's why Rooney is a more valuable player than either.

How bad was Messi last night by the way? Absolutely shocking. Though he did manage to roll around, dive, and give the ball away every time he got it, including one time which led to a goal. This is the player on a different level to anyone else eh?! He reminded me of a young, immature Cristiano last night. If there's any of you still jizzing over his destruction of Silvestre though, please don't let me stop you... unfortunately against teams that can actually defend it's not so easy..
4/21/10 10:46 AM
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1 2 3 ACE
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Just to add, the very notion of suggesting Torres is better than Rooney due to some stat is laughable. Rooney can't even be defined as a striker, it wouldn't be accurate considering all that he does on the pitch.
Forget the stats, this isn't baseball.
4/21/10 3:14 PM
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PoundforPound
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Shitting on Torres, Ronaldo, and Messi? So it's safe to say you have an illogical bias towards non-English players?

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