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Kickboxing UnderGround >> One of the most exciting rounds at Lumpini


3/13/10 7:20 AM
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JohnnyKnees
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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xchjnu_pakorn-sakyothin-vs-ponsaneh-sitmon_sport

Blue namer please embed?

This fight was from last week at Lumpini. Round four was an absolute war and went down as one of the best rounds at Lumpini in recent years.
3/13/10 7:21 AM
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JohnnyKnees
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http://sstv.siamsport.co.th/ViewClip.asp?C=00011547

here's a cleaner version
3/13/10 1:16 PM
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Khun Kao
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3/13/10 1:44 PM
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Khun Kao
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The video player crapped out right at the end in the middle of round 5 (my internet connection dropped for a minute) so I didn't get to watch it all, however I think I saw enough to judge the fight properly....

First off, this was an all out war!!!! Do these 2 guys have some sort of history with one another? Looked to be some bad blood there. I don't think I've ever watched Thai's come out so hard against one another from the opening bell... usually they favor "cruising" the 1st 2 rounds to feel each other out...

Anyway, on with the scoring....

ROUND 1: 10-10 (advantage red) Red was very aggressive this round.

ROUND 2: 10-10 (advantage blue) While Red was again the more aggressive fighter, Blue was definitely the stronger of the two and landing the cleaner, more effective SCORING strikes.

ROUND 3: 9-10 (Blue) Same story as round 2... Red definitely more aggressive, but Blue proved stronger and scored more effective, cleaner strikes that SCORED.

ROUND 4: 9-10 (Blue) I'm uncertain about this because I'm not 100% clear on how the Thai's score boxing in a Muay Thai match. As far as landing strikes, the two seemed relatively even on a blow-for-blow basis, but Red did seem to stagger Blue at least twice. However, I judged this round for Red because while Red seemed to hold the advantage in the boxing, Blue landed some powerful knees and kicks to Red, and that is what REALLY scores in a MuayThai match...

ROUND 5: 9-10 (Blue) Okay, this is based only on what I saw (1st half of round), but it seemed plainly obvious that Blue knew he was ahead of the cards and was backing off... doing just enough to protect his lead. During the first half of the fight, Blue was constantly advancing and putting the pressure on Red, but in this round he was content to back away. Unless there was a knockdown or knockout I missed, I believe that Blue won this fight.

So how did I do?
3/14/10 12:13 PM
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Bankable
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great fight, round 4 delivers. thx for posting
3/16/10 12:50 AM
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JohnnyKnees
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Edited: 03/16/10 12:55 AM
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Khun Kao,

They are trying to get these two a rematch for the Lumpini Vs Rajadamnern card later next week. I will definitely not miss this one as Rajadamnern is right around the block from where I am staying. That is unless the Red Shirts completely take over the government and BKK goes into a mass frenzy! lol

As far as scoring, there is so much I am learning out here, but so much more to go. It's almost impossible to get a solid answer from any of the Thai's as they all have a different opinion.

I'm just starting to be able to pick the winner but breaking down each individual round is tough. I am not as well versed in judging as you but here are some things that help me:

If a fighter comes out strong in the fifth round, using a lot of hands, then most likely he is down on points and needs the KO to win. This was the hardest thing for me to grasp in my earlier trips to Thailand. In America, the more aggressive fighter or the stronger finisher usually sways the judges scorecards.

Rounds three and four are where the fight is won. It seems that no matter how bad a fighter has done in the first or second rounds, or how little he has shown, if he comes out strong in the third and fourth he will pretty much earn himself the victory.

A few days ago I asked one of the guys who handles the foreign affairs here at the gym about the scoring of the first and second rounds. I asked him if both fighters automatically get 10-10 but he kind of danced around the question. I never got a straight anwswer accept that the fighters don't want to show to much that way it increases their odds of winning and in the end, will earn them more money from the gamblers.

I am also learning that the gamblers play a huge role in the pace of the fights. If they think a fighter is winning they will tell him to back off in the fifth round. The fighter, thinking he already won will do so. However, at times the fighter is losing and it just cost him the fight.

I have learned there are multiple reasons fighters back off in the last round aside from the gamblers influence. I've been told that since the fighters have to fight every few weeks, there is a underlying respect that if one fighter is clearly ahead he will not do any more damage to his opponent. This will give his opponent a chance to save himself from injury and fight soon again.

Just last week at Omnoi I witnessed my first fight that was called a DQ due to a fighter taking a dive. At first, I had no idea what was happening as they just stopped the fight in the middle of the action and the red corner walked out of the ring. Rob Cox came over and told me the red corner was guilty of taking a dive and the fight was stopped. I couldn't see what the referee or the gamblers saw but it was crazy how they picked up on the subtleness of his actions. He didn't go down, but he just became more laid back after starting strong. So they accused him of taking a dive.

I am going to Lumpini tonight and I plan on asking Rob about the scoring. He is a wealth of knowledge and can communicate to me in English. So hopefully I can figure this stuff out once and for all! haha

Oh and one more thing I was told. There is a saying that the gamblers "inject" the fighters. Meaning that the gamblers will tell the cornermen, "hey, I will give your guy ""this much money"" if he wins so make sure he comes out strong!"

It's like the fighter is "injected" with a second win.
3/16/10 12:57 AM
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JohnnyKnees
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Last sentence I ment second wind! haha
3/16/10 2:17 AM
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The Sauce
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awesome fight! ouch!!
3/16/10 8:56 AM
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Khun Kao
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Thanks, Johnny! I'll add my $.02 regarding my understanding of the scoring...

Rounds 1 & 2 *seem* to always be scored 10-10 unless there is a knockdown. However, the judges to make indications in their notes as to who had an "advantage" in each of those rounds to consult in the event of a very close fight.

Rounds 3 & 4 are, as you said, the most important rounds of the fight. Specifically, round 4. Considering how rounds 1, 2, and 5 rarely decide the outcome of a fight, it's almost as if round 3 counts towards the results normally, but round 4 is worth 2 rounds.... OK, that's not a very adequate explanation, but I think you see my point. It's possible to have showed the least during rounds 1 & 2, lose round 3, win round 4, then "punt" round 5 (do just enough to keep your opponent from regaining any advantage), and win the fight.

Round 5, as mentioned, seems to only come into play if the outcome is still in question or if there is a knockdown/knockout. It is an acceptable practice for fighters to "coast" through this round for a variety of reasons (which you already summarized)

In MuayThai, while each round receives an individual score, the fight is looked at as more of a whole. The Thai's like to refer to a fight as running a marathon... That's why the winner of round 4 almost always wins the match (round 4 being considered the most important). It's like the fight builds like a crescendo, peaking in round 4, with round 5 serving as the denouement.
3/17/10 10:09 AM
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JohnnyKnees
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Khun Kao,

Thanks for summarizing that up for me. It definitely makes sense and I can see your points being played out at the fights over here.

Just when I thought it would take a lifetime to master Muaythai....now it will take me two lifetimes to learn the scoring as well!

haha

3/17/10 11:24 AM
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Khun Kao
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It wouldn't be so bad if the Thai's weren't so evasive when it comes to explaining how they score. I can't tell you how many times Thai's have told me that everything counts the same.... punches, kicks, elbows, knees.... And then how they score the rounds in relation to one another..... I'm glad to be acquainted with a few knowledgeable folks who have taken the time to explain this stuff to me, but I'm far from an expert myself!
3/18/10 2:16 PM
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Posty Magee
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ttt
3/22/10 5:41 PM
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Somerville Bad Boy
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ttt
4/6/10 2:51 PM
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SanshiroSugata
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ttt
5/3/10 12:31 PM
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The Sultan
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 ttt

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