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LegalGround >> Thinking about switching firms...


3/13/10 11:04 AM
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Fake Pie
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Edited: 03/13/10 8:16 PM
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Am editing this down due to paranoia.

I am a 2nd year. I would get like a $25K bump (and would have lock step raises every year), I could live in a place I prefer to my current location. know I like working with the people that left here and are now there and I would get more opportunities to get transactional work and with a lot of different partners.

I really like the partner that I am still with here, but I get no work from anyone else and I doubt that will change for a variety of reasons that are not really his fault, I will probably never get a raise here any time in the foreseeable future and I don't particularly like living here. So basically I think everything over there is better, except my job security is really good here and I am basically the favorite child of a pretty good equity partner. I can probably ride his coattails for a long time, though I doubt I will ever get much in the way of raises and will never make partner, though I don't think I want to (I want to get out and do in-house sometime down the line, like maybe years 5 or 6). The guy is brilliant though and I can learn a lot from him. Also, he has been good to me and I don't like fucking people over. I know I am not supposed to consider things like that in making career decisions but that is how I am. Anyhow, thoughts?
3/13/10 4:52 PM
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halcyonday
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Fake Pie,

If there is anything that this recession has taught, it is that partners do not have a sense of loyalty. Look at the layoffs these past two years. Partners culled the herd in order to maintain a PPP of $1.5 rather than a PPP of $1.4. What is worse is that these these layoffs were deemed performance-based, thereby putting a black mark on the associates future job prospects.

I can understand your hesitancy to leave. Partners that actually take the time to mentor and teach associates are few and far between. But, you need to ask yourself this: Will that partner hand you his book of business when it's time for him to retire? Or, are his clients merely institutional clients (i.e. the firm will decide who will be on point)?

You do not work for DLA Piper, do you? If so, I would run for greener pastures.
3/13/10 6:30 PM
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Fake Pie
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Edited: 03/13/10 6:31 PM
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Not Piper, that would be an easy call to leave. Clients are not institutional but he won't be retirement age when I would come up, though I could honestly see him giving me a piece of his book down the line. Honestly, I am not that worried about that as I don't want to be a partner in all likelihood.

Current firm is actually too good in a way about not laying people off. There are people that haven't been performing since well before the slow down and they refuse to cut them, though in some cases that is because they check too many boxes.
3/13/10 9:16 PM
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Xtina
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A partner who you think is a good person can quickly turn on you - no loyalty, no conscience.  Hopefully, yours is better than my last one was.  Good luck.
3/14/10 12:00 AM
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Trust
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 I am sooooo glad I missed out on the conventional firm bullshit politics and associate abuse. I have heard all the stories from my friends, and based on that I'd say Xtina is correct. 
3/15/10 8:37 AM
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Fake Pie
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We have politics but I would hardly say I am abused. One of the good things about avoiding a large New York factory type firm.
3/15/10 4:51 PM
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Cookie Monster
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Edited: 03/15/10 4:51 PM
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My suggestion would be to look to the longer term. From the sounds of things you are thinking in that direction. Learning from excellent attorneys is an absolutely invaluable experience, even if the temporary circumstances are not ideal. Go into whatever you are doing with the approach of a five year plan. Give yourself five (or four or whatever) years to learn and grow as MUCH as possible, expecailly at the feet of one who excels. With your exit in mind, plan for the long haul and honing your craft in the best way possible. Learn not just practicing law, but lawyering, as there is a world of difference and both can be learned simultaneously from good mentors. Long haul, my friend. Short term pains long term gains.

My $.02
3/15/10 6:57 PM
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Fake Pie
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I agree. However, it isn't a situation where I am considering leaving for unknown attorneys. I also know the partner and associate that left here for that place and I also think they are great mentors, especially the senior associate who will soon make partner.
3/20/10 1:12 AM
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seg
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Xtina - A partner who you think is a good person can quickly turn on you - no loyalty, no conscience.  Hopefully, yours is better than my last one was.  Good luck.
Truth.  Many partners are "good people" as long as you are making them money.  If they think stabbing you in the back will put another nickel in their pocket, get ready for the knife.
3/22/10 11:43 AM
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Steve72
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seg - 
Xtina - A partner who you think is a good person can quickly turn on you - no loyalty, no conscience.  Hopefully, yours is better than my last one was.  Good luck.
Truth.  Many partners are "good people" as long as you are making them money.  If they think stabbing you in the back will put another nickel in their pocket, get ready for the knife.



Thirding this post.
3/22/10 3:56 PM
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Fake Pie
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Odd timing... he has been absolutely fucking pissing me off on a transaction we are trying to close tomorrow. Making the decision a lot easier... though I know every partner has their quirks, this shit is getting out of hand.
3/29/10 10:17 AM
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Fake Pie
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They said an official offer is coming soon. I am pretty sure I am going to do it.
3/29/10 12:24 PM
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Xtina
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 good luck!  ask if they need an ip transactional associate!
3/29/10 8:35 PM
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goku
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i would switch based on the salary..all these firms are pretty much the same...
3/31/10 8:44 PM
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Fake Pie
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goku - i would switch based on the salary..all these firms are pretty much the same...


Yeah I can't turn it down. It is 25K now but also lock step raises every year. Like by year 5 the gap will probably be at 60K because I will likely never get a raise here. Hopefully by then I can get out and go in-house.

" good luck! ask if they need an ip transactional associate!"

No problem. Let me know how things go and I will keep my ear open.
4/3/10 1:23 PM
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Xtina
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lol, thx
4/12/10 9:32 PM
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Xtina
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oh yeah, make sure you take at least a month of vacation between firms.  you never know when you'll get your next chance!
4/14/10 3:56 PM
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Fake Pie
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Xtina - oh yeah, make sure you take at least a month of vacation between firms.  you never know when you'll get your next chance!


Unfortunately the fuckers are pressuring me to start as soon as possible... as in they want me to start commuting now and don't even want to wait for me to move. It is annoying. I am trying to push it as much as I can but I don't want to come in there having already pissed someone off over it.
4/16/10 10:58 AM
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Fake Pie
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Got the official offer letter. Will give notice next week. Hopefully they fire me on the spot so I get some vacation.
4/16/10 11:06 AM
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goku
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 awesome..good luck at the new firm...and fuck partners who think associates are commodities! oh how the tables have turned....
4/16/10 12:11 PM
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Fake Pie
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Seriously, my decision got a lot easier when they announced we were all basically staying flat salary wise this year, even people who killed it, because that is "market" right now. They are about to find out what the fucking market is. I have had many recruiting calls just in the last week. Shit isn't 2008 or anything, but it isn't 2009 anymore either.
4/16/10 1:30 PM
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goku
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 "market" = pooosey copout...its funny how "market" when it comes to associate compensation is basically the lowest common denominator..it doesnt matter if your firm actually increased profits last year, the firm's "market" will suddenly be the firm in the same region that lost millions in revenue....
4/16/10 2:29 PM
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salyer36
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How do you guys get your names out to recruiters? I would like to put my resume up.
4/16/10 2:42 PM
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goku
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salyer36 - How do you guys get your names out to recruiters? I would like to put my resume up.

 easy...have your name on your firm's website...
4/16/10 10:18 PM
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Fake Pie
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Recruiters will call you if you fit the bill. But you can call a headhunter yourself. Check out lateral link. Go to NALP and check out all the big firms in the area you want to be in and then go to those firms webpages and see if they have openings. For finding a headhunter I don't know, but I am sure you can google it I guess.

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