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JKD UnderGround >> Discovery Channel JKD show


5/25/10 3:05 AM
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Edge08
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Thanks for the feedback Demi. :)
The first few times I did isometrics for low,middle and high 'deadlift' position my back would twitch for a few hours thereafter. I don't know if it's because I stimulated all the muscle fibers (which would be cool) or because it's such a new exercise that my body is adapting.

It would be cool to get my deadlift to 400# sooner in the year with this method everyday along with my twice a week 5x5 heavy and light DL's.

BTW, I don't do them in the gym, there are two baby trees in the backyard that I pull.
6/27/10 8:54 PM
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Edge08
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About isometric training from Ross training
'If you are looking for a portable isometric unit, this inexpensive option may come in handy. I’ve made considerable strength gains with isometrics for several years now. The simplicity of this tool certainly does not discount its benefits.'
http://www.rosstraining.com/blog/
http://rosstraining.com/blog/2009/02/23/homemade-isometric-tool/

Thanks for this thread and re-discovering Bruce Lee's training methods.
6/27/10 11:09 PM
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Kai Tremeche
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Edge08 - I've read in different biographies of Bruce Lee that he was sort of a punk in his teens and got in fights then. Check out Amazon to pick up some of those biographies.


Yeah, but most of those were written by John Little, who is the biggest BL worshiper in the universe.
10/2/10 11:49 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Resurrecting this topic for a bit...

One thing that few people realize, though if they think about it they 'know' it.

Let's assume that many of the things BL espoused about fighting were true. The thing to realize is that what people are doing is trying to 'copy' him and before you can do that you first have to be BL. (have his attributes).

He had nearly superhuman reflexes, ability to 'read' the opponent by studying the 'loading up' of strikes (hip, shoulder, head movement prior to launching a strike) and moved about 2-3x faster than most people even athletes.

He also worked on various aspects of his body from his teenage years to make weak things stronger than most people, including his bridge arm, his abs, and his forearms, not to mention his lats and back. (see the cat stretch in RotD).


He spent a fair amount of effort 'hiding' his real stuff after he left Oakland (both Glover and DeMile mention this). So we don't know the process of 'build up' that he did.

Thus anyone trying to copy him is only going to get the surface of what he was doing. This is similar to what we find in Aikido, where O-Sensei had a background in several MA before he developed his art, including, I suspect, some training in Fa-Jing in China. Without that base modern Aikido will never achieve what he did. His small size and quickness also contributed to his ability to move as he did. (see Jay Gluck's book).

The main thing we can learn from JKD and BL is the 'how' of training, though. Tear down everything you know and do into its components, break all movement down into thirds, go back to the original research and journal and track your training. Forget trying to emulate BL. Seek, instead his methodology.

$0.02
10/25/10 4:53 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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The fact that we are still discussing BL today is the result of marketing, not his skill or fighting record.

Somebody (many somebodies actually) JKD'ed the marketing up the ying yang and turned BL into the worlds greatest whatever they call him.

There, I layed it down.
11/28/10 1:41 AM
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Jeff_H
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demi, i was training with scott when you showed him the clinch side of things and shortly thereafter scott hosted a clinch seminar with adam. i went to the seminar along with you and scott and "saw the light" as well.

it's funny because i started training a new guy recently and explained the 3 ranges (some say 4 but it's potato/pahtato if you ask me) and it was then that i realized i don't train the clinch nearly as much as i train stand-up and ground. needless to say, i worked on clinch this morning with my training group.

good times.
11/28/10 7:47 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Jeff,

I remember the seminar.

Good to hear about your "moments of clarity". Those are gifts. We all have blind spots and we really do need "other people" to point them out to us (since we can't see them ourselves).

We can all be very "self directed" and even "self deceived". We get stuck in what "we are good at" and exploit it to appear more rounded/functional than we are.

Self deception is at it's worst when we really try to press the issue to our students that "they don't need to clinch/use firearms/understand fight psychology etc" because we don't know much about those things (and others) ourselves.

I've personally backed off of so much, hacked away at the unessentials and simplified a lot. But that's because I'm still learning.
12/19/10 6:19 PM
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jkd4200
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Have any of you even trained with Dan Inosanto?

I cant believe the shit i am reading on this post.


If you want some real answers on how bruce trained grappling, please go to Dan or his seminar or even watch his video on grappling.


If you think Bruce was "just an actor" you have your head in the sand.

Demi???? where do you come up with this shit?

(Paul Vunak by the way was the man who got Dan into BJJ... this was about 1983 or so.)
12/20/10 5:45 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"""Demi???? where do you come up with this shit?"""

I've been in one JKD circle or another for the past 21 years. I hear things, I see things and I experience things.
12/20/10 5:46 PM
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Radd
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On the Paul Bax forum a while ago, Bruce Lee's transcripts from his first year in college show he took a physical education course for credit in amateur wrestling. Again, the copy was an official transcript from the university so this would be Lee's official introduction to amateur wrestling. It is not debatable whether or not he had formal training. He enrolled in the class. I can't tell you the grade's because the university blacked them out due to privacy rules when they released the transcipt to the public.

Again - the official document was released by the university. It is a fact Lee was enrolled in a wrestling class.

A lot of information about Lee's life was only revealed after a lot of research such as his participation in an amateur boxing tournament in HK. For years, this was reported as his participation in a no hold barred martial arts tourney. The surviving photographs of the event were published in a newspaper at the time the tournament took place. Copies of the newspaper eventually were uncovered. Bruce is wearing amateur boxing headgear, trunks, and gloves. It was a boxing tournament. He was enrolled in the tournament through his association with the college's boxing coach.

Bruce was unofficially taught judo by Jesse Glover as Glover had a background in judo. This was when Bruce and Jesse first met.

Bruce's other close friend at the time was the late Ed Hart who also had a judo and wrestling background.
12/20/10 5:53 PM
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jkd4200
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Demitrius Barbito - """Demi???? where do you come up with this shit?"""

I've been in one JKD circle or another for the past 21 years. I hear things, I see things and I experience things.



Have you spent any quality time with Inosanto?

and i am just surprised that you think bruce was just an actor if you have really been in the JKD circle for 21 years.

or is this an attempt to market yourself?
12/21/10 1:29 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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IMO, no diss on Demi but he is comparing apples and oranges with his analysis of BL's abilities.

He says Lewis and Wall and LaBell, and Kareem could whup, choke out, kill BL with one punch. But guess what? All these guys are at least 40-100lbs heavier than BL. Where does anyone ever compare a featherweight with a heavyweight fighter?

He says that BL's methods are outdated. But when do we ever compare a genius of 40-50 years ago with a current adept?

Do we say that Einstein was dumber (or smarter) than Stephen Hawking? No. Both have attained genius status and both have different access to data and access to contemporaries and technology is vastly different from that available in the 1930s.

Could Willie Pep beat Muhammad Ali? A featherweight (126lbs) vs a heavyweight? It's silly and no boxing afficianado would entertain such a discussion.

There are many 'venues' of martial arts. There's 'war/combat', 'melee', 'sport', 'standing start SD', stage fighting, demo-mode, acrobatic/cinematic, casual (such as handling a drunken uncle), physical fitness, and historical among others.

Is anyone a master of all of these? Is it necessary to be called a true MA master to be good at melee fighting and stage fighting and cinematic fighting and sport fighting and standing start SD? Yet Demi seems to require that BL be the best at all of these or he's not good at any of them.

Neither BL nor Joe Lewis or Mike Stone would be able to handle a well-trained SEAL in a fire fight. ('war' venue)

Joe Lewis was not that good at stage fighting or cinematic fighting, (his movie Jaguar and Jaguar Lives were box office failures) and only a point-fighting champion because his competition was not that good. He would not have beat some of the guys in Chuck Norris' WCL-style fighting (such as Raymond Daniels). He did not do that well in his ring fighting matches with Wallace and his boxing match with a low ranked pro he lost badly (though he was in his 40s).

Kareem was pretty clumsy in GoD, so I don't see him beating anyone - he wasn't a fighter.

So, imo, the best way to analyze BL's ability was to be as specific as possible. He was the best at standing start, cinematic and stage fighting (pioneered camera angles and how to build movie drama), was not good at point fighting, cage fighting etc.

$0.02


12/21/10 12:00 PM
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Radd
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It is also necessary to point out that what Bruce Lee taught in his lifetime was never really taught to the public until 1998 and beyond. The JKD taught in the 1970s - the mid-1990s was very very far removed from the material he had taught.

When you look at some of the material taught by Ted Wong's students, you will notice it is an excellent simple system of using boxing and fencing for self-defense purposes. The system is made stronger from using a kickboxing style sparring base.

In the Seattle era, the modified wing chun is not everyone's taste but the material taught by Jesse Glover, Pat Strong, Ed Hart (all friends and training partners of Bruce in Seattle) was far more comprehensive and sought to utilize wing chun concepts and principles for self defense purposes. To say this approach was different from the "trapping range" appproach taught in later years would be a massive understatement.
12/21/10 3:42 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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The waters getting too muddy.

All I'm saying is Bruce Lee was not the greatest "fighter" of all time.

I personally do not think he would have done well against opponents of his own weight class (something I think he understood too which may be why he was so pumped on roids).

I don't think it's accurate to call him a fighter. When you look at someone like Ali "there is no need for debate". Ali was a fighter. All the debate over BL being called a fighter shows there's not an obvious history.

He definitely had some good ideas, great progressive training and charisma. THERE IS NO NEGATIVE to what I'm saying.

I'm just giving my .02

I'm not the knower of the things... I'm just talkin.
12/21/10 7:41 PM
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Radd
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Bruce generally spoke of fighting from the perspective of self defense or challenge match style skirmishes. He really did not promote himself as a superhuman fighter. Such a perception was created mainly in the minds of fans of the movies and perpetuated unrealistically by the magazine press of the 1970s and 1980s.

Bruce's actual approach to self defense was very simple and to the point. Most of the other training revolved around exercise, health, fitness, mental stimulation, and the like.
12/27/10 4:14 AM
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Lord Kancho
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Radd - It is also necessary to point out that what Bruce Lee taught in his lifetime was never really taught to the public until 1998 and beyond. The JKD taught in the 1970s - the mid-1990s was very very far removed from the material he had taught.


why?
12/31/10 1:36 PM
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Iron Man
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I don't know if I should be saying this but one time in class Guro Dan was kind of upset when he read that Joe Lewis was kind of putting BL down by saying that bruce was not a real fighter and they never sparred, just exchanged techniques.

Guro Dan said he was them spar full out and Joe could not touch BL. He said he was there and saw this with his own eyes. Also, that bruce lee was the teacher and Joe was the student.

I think there is alot that we still don't know of Bruce's fighting skills beside a few. But guys like Mike Stone, Joe Lewis and Kareem were going to Bruce for instruction. And no one questioned his skill at that time.

12/31/10 6:35 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Good thing we can all talk freely and just express ourselves and talk.

It get's weird when someone becomes the "knower".

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