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S&C UnderGround >> Dolce Diet


9/7/10 4:54 AM
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piratepirate
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My book hasn't arrived, started as soon as it comes, I will post updates every couple days through the 3 weeks.
9/7/10 6:12 AM
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NCAA92
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piratepirate - My book hasn't arrived, started as soon as it comes, I will post updates every couple days through the 3 weeks.
looking forward to your updates
 
9/7/10 12:25 PM
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CARI0CA
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TTT for Dolce Diet

is it available as an ebook? Just don't want to wait for shipping
9/10/10 4:35 AM
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piratepirate
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Jorx - 
RJ1581 -  supposedly Chael was around 230 before his cut to 185 and had looked PHENOMENAL since he started with Dolce.


Don't believe it. That doesn't physiologically make sense anymore. That is 45 lbs of difference. 20%.
It does sound like a lot, but other guys like Anderson are at 220, and make weight consistantly.
So it obviously isn't impossible.

Sean Sherk weights near 190, and his frame is much smaller than Sonnen's.



 
9/10/10 8:13 AM
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Jorx
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Edited: 09/10/10 8:14 AM
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220 is 10 lbs less than 230.

About Andersona I believe that to be a) rounded, meaning he is more like 215.

Now that's 30 lbs difference. That is doable. But that also isn't a "cut".

If somebody weighs X between camps and gets fat, that's a whole different issue. That doesn't mean they CUT X minus huge amount.

E.g.

Middleweight (185 lbs) fighter is X inbetween camps. That yummy pizza! Let's say he bloats up to 220.

Fight camp is 12 weeks. He will lose a nice 1 lb every week for the first 8-10 weeks just by eating clean and training more.

That means by the time he really starts weight-loss specific extreme measures he will be a nice and lean 210!

Of that another 4 lbs in 2 weeks will be body mass loss (muscle + fat). Of that about 6 lbs will emptied glycogen stores and waste residue.

Now he is 200 lbs and can start to really "cut". He has to lose 15 lbs and for that is 2 choices:

1) hard water cut of 15 lbs, but doable (8%)
2) Combined more extreme diet during 12-week fight camp losing possibly noticeable muscle mass and therefore easier water cut.

But all that doesn't mean he -cuts- down from 220!

Gray Maynard who is supposed to be this HUGE LW said he was 168 on Monday before fight with Diaz.

And I call BS on "Sean Sherk weighs 190". Sean Sherk was somebody who always said he doesn't have to lose much weight to fight in 170! Ergo 180 at max during his WW time and probably quite noticeably less now in LW.
9/10/10 10:47 AM
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GaymidaGaydan
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My book should come in today.

I will let you know how it is...
9/10/10 11:54 AM
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piratepirate
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Jorx - 220 is 10 lbs less than 230.

About Andersona I believe that to be a) rounded, meaning he is more like 215.

Now that's 30 lbs difference. That is doable. But that also isn't a "cut".

If somebody weighs X between camps and gets fat, that's a whole different issue. That doesn't mean they CUT X minus huge amount.

But all that doesn't mean he -cuts- down from 220!

Gray Maynard who is supposed to be this HUGE LW said he was 168 on Monday before fight with Diaz.

And I call BS on "Sean Sherk weighs 190". Sean Sherk was somebody who always said he doesn't have to lose much weight to fight in 170! Ergo 180 at max during his WW time and probably quite noticeably less now in LW.

 I think in this case he used the word "cut" meaning weight between training cycles,
not how much he litterally dehydrated to make weight.

I am sure Gray may have been 168 monday before the diaz fight, but he walks around day to day much bigger.

Also, since you're such a prick, the difference between 215 and 230 isn't 3l0lbs, its 15.

You're problem is you're hung up on the definition of the word cut,
some guys use it to define the amount of weight you come down from your natural "Walking weight",
other define it how much water you shed the last day to make weight.

I myself prefer to use it defining you're natual walking weight,
and don't say oh blah blah that is their natural weight, if you can't maintain a weight naturally for an extended period of time, its not your natural weight. Thus, I use the words cutting down.
9/10/10 11:55 AM
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piratepirate
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GaymidaGaydan - My book should come in today.

I will let you know how it is...

 same here I have been at my mailbox like crazy.
9/10/10 1:44 PM
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GaymidaGaydan
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I have been doing the "precision nutrition" thing all week.


I might switch and try to get "shredded in 3 weeks"
9/10/10 5:46 PM
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Jorx
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Based on Gray being 168 five days before the weigh ins, I'd say his early-camp weight is around 175. That's what he could maintain if he wanted to.

So you say Joe Riggs has cut some 130 lbs? By your definition.

Either way - you didn't provide any reason or system how one could come down from 230 to 185.

And since you're calling me a prick - difference between 185 and 215 is 30 lbs;) and that's what I meant.

Where do you draw the line of "natural" weight? After 2 month break after a fight is "natural" as opposed to being 4 weeks into camp is "not natural" and not "walk-around weight"?
9/10/10 9:00 PM
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GaymidaGaydan
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Edited: 09/10/10 9:11 PM
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So i got the book.

First impression is that it is very thin, and kind of low quality (looks like it was printed at a kinkos) for a 40 dollar book.



That said i care more about the info then the book quality.

I will read and let you know. (looks like you can read in one session)
9/10/10 11:11 PM
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piratepirate
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Edited: 09/10/10 11:15 PM
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Jorx - Based on Gray being 168 five days before the weigh ins, I'd say his early-camp weight is around 175. That's what he could maintain if he wanted to.

So you say Joe Riggs has cut some 130 lbs? By your definition.

Either way - you didn't provide any reason or system how one could come down from 230 to 185.

And since you're calling me a prick - difference between 185 and 215 is 30 lbs;) and that's what I meant.

Where do you draw the line of "natural" weight? After 2 month break after a fight is "natural" as opposed to being 4 weeks into camp is "not natural" and not "walk-around weight"?

 As I stated, I define your natural weight as a weight you can maintain naturally.
Thus, natural weight.
Not a weight you work for 3 months at and can only maintain for two days to hop on a scale.

*edit*
Any way a person could come down from 230 to 185? In what time span?
Its all about how much body fat you're carrying at the time you weigh 230.
Its completely possible to lose weight from 230 and get near 185 enough to shed water and make weight.
45lbs? Is that what you're thinking is impossible? Why?
(Note that Dolce got Rampage from over 250 to making weight at 205).

I've witnessed people lose 30lbs in a month at 24 hour fitness,
without hardcore workouts and strict dieting... Why think 40 is out of the question with more time,
diet, exersize and planning?


 
9/10/10 11:16 PM
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piratepirate
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GaymidaGaydan - So i got the book.

First impression is that it is very thin, and kind of low quality (looks like it was printed at a kinkos) for a 40 dollar book.



That said i care more about the info then the book quality.

I will read and let you know. (looks like you can read in one session)
Still waiting on mine.. fucking shipping.
 
9/11/10 12:21 AM
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GaymidaGaydan
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piratepirate - 
GaymidaGaydan - So i got the book.

First impression is that it is very thin, and kind of low quality (looks like it was printed at a kinkos) for a 40 dollar book.



That said i care more about the info then the book quality.

I will read and let you know. (looks like you can read in one session)
Still waiting on mine.. fucking shipping.
 


I read through it.

Mostly good information if somewhat basic. Most interesting he details his exact diet for one of his weight cuts for a fight.


Ends kind of abruptly. Probably not worth the money IMO.
9/11/10 8:34 AM
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Jorx
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I can naturally maintain 155 lbs. I can also naturally maintain 165 lbs. Which is my "natural" weight? (I compete at 145).

I could bloat up to 170 if I wanted to and maintain that! I'd be a strong and somewhat fat stocky dude.

So we agree on that fat% matters. Other thing that matters is the % of the weight lost.

That's why a fat Rampage can lose 45 lbs for his fight which is 18% of his starting weight and 22% of his fightweight. But that is IMO pretty much max you can do.

Of course somebody can lose let's say 100 lbs in X amount of time and then fight - that does not mean that his natural weight even by your definition would be that.

IMO natural weight could be possible lowest weight you can maintain while eating healthy and training on a regular schedule. That would also give info about how "fuctionally big" somebody actually is. As opposed to somebody loving junk food and being lazy and then getting up to outrageous numbers.

This is also why I don't believe said numbers about Chael and Anderson who are active athletes.
9/12/10 1:27 AM
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piratepirate
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Jorx - I can naturally maintain 155 lbs. I can also naturally maintain 165 lbs. Which is my "natural" weight? (I compete at 145).

I could bloat up to 170 if I wanted to and maintain that! I'd be a strong and somewhat fat stocky dude.

So we agree on that fat% matters. Other thing that matters is the % of the weight lost.

That's why a fat Rampage can lose 45 lbs for his fight which is 18% of his starting weight and 22% of his fightweight. But that is IMO pretty much max you can do.

Of course somebody can lose let's say 100 lbs in X amount of time and then fight - that does not mean that his natural weight even by your definition would be that.

IMO natural weight could be possible lowest weight you can maintain while eating healthy and training on a regular schedule. That would also give info about how "fuctionally big" somebody actually is. As opposed to somebody loving junk food and being lazy and then getting up to outrageous numbers.

This is also why I don't believe said numbers about Chael and Anderson who are active athletes.
*yawn*
What are you trying to argue? That you don't think a guy can go from 230 to 185? 
Thats insane, why wouldn't it be possible? More so, why would Sonnen and Anderson lie about their weight? What would they gain from something like that?

For the sake of conversation, I consider your natural weight the weight you maintain with normal / healthy diet and active life. NOT something you have to work your ass off for. Bodybuilders aren't are a natural weight, if you're in the gym 20 hours a week to maintain your weight that isn't your natural weight.
I don't know how to better explain it to you... on the other hand, if you're eating like crazy and not moving at all, you're working in the other direction at maintaining a fatter weight... so that wouldn't be your natural weight either... Is this making any sense?

 
9/12/10 5:43 PM
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Jorx
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Edited: 09/13/10 4:36 AM
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Sonnen and Anderson are not lying about their weight:) Their nuthuggers are.

Edit: or their opponents' nuthuggers;)
9/13/10 3:42 PM
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piratepirate
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Edited: 09/13/10 3:43 PM
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Jorx - Sonnen and Anderson are not lying about their weight:) Their nuthuggers are.

Edit: or their opponents' nuthuggers;)

 So your arguement is that Anderson never said he weighed 210 and Chael has never said he was up at 230? (You do also realize that you said 20 percent was impossible for Sonnen, but 22 percent is the max somebody can do later in the conversation)
I see..

You can google a number of interviews with Soares stating Anderson walking around from 215 - 220 between fights. Anderson has never corrected him, so its as good as a direct quote as you're getting.
(When Anderson "Called out Fedor, they clearly stated weight wouldn't be an issue as Anderson walks around at 220 and Fedor typically only weighs around 230)

Perhaps Mr Dolce can clear up where Sonnen comes down from?
But based on him being over 6 feet tall, and seeing him next to guy slike Okami, Maia and Anderson we can make a pretty educated guess about his usual weight.  Pretty easy to find weigh in photos.
http://www.nierva.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ufc-117-weigh-in-results-photos1.jpg



 
9/13/10 4:03 PM
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GaymidaGaydan
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For all those thinking about getting this, I would recommend "Precision Nutrition" over the dolce diet.


www.precisionnutrition.com
9/13/10 4:53 PM
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Jorx
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Dude, you can believe whatever you want. I believe the fighters' "walk around weight" numbers are often exaggerated. You do not. Consider the discussion won if it makes you happy:)
9/14/10 1:06 AM
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Ring Girl
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Chael said himself in interviews leading up to the fight that he 220-230 when he started dieting/cutting. Not sure what the debate is. He's not a small guy.
9/14/10 4:57 AM
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Leigh
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I don't think Jorx is a prick
9/14/10 10:40 AM
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Jorx
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I'd just like to point out that Chael himself said quite a lot of all kinds of things prior to the fight with Anderson:)

Also if a fighter states one's weight as 220-230 then this already should make one suspicious of said values.

I am not saying somebody fighting in 185 lbs weight class has never weighed 230.

What I am saying is that this "230" shouldn't be considered "walk-around-weight" e.g. information to imply how "big" the athlete is.

It makes a huge difference weather you train and weather you eat clean obviously. Training and eating clean is not some kind of a huge task for an athlete (at least shouldn't be). Mind you I am not talking caloric deficit yet. Just eating clean. And I don't believe that there are people who regularily compete at 185 lbs who while training and eating clean "walk around" at 230 lbs or more.

From what I know for a 185 lbs weightclass fighter with fat % between 8 and 12 max weight from which specifically come down to would be 215-220 lbs. That's the weight they would "walk around at" all the time ideally. Of course some of them like pizza too much and get fat. That's a whole other issue.
9/14/10 12:26 PM
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Ring Girl
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I'm not even sure what you guys are talking about anymore. Are we now talking about what someone SHOULD weigh or what they DO weigh?

Anyway, I'm actually friends with Chael, so this wasn't like the Hispanic dude on the radio, he really did weigh that much.
9/14/10 8:05 PM
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piratepirate
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Edited: 09/14/10 8:06 PM
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 Got the book, bought all the food today and starting the 3 weeks outlined in the book on monday.
Mr Dolce obviously works out more than I do, but I am extremely active so we will see.
(Work in a hospital and walk 4 - 6 miles a shift, lift heavy 3x a week, cardio 3x a week with a rest day).

So, as of today I am 6 foot 3 and 260
.I'll weigh monday again, and every monday after.
I am a little surprised how much water and fluids are in the diet, even up to the day before the weigh ins (For him, as his 3 weeks were leading up to a fight) and how large the meals are, extremely well put together, a shopping list, etc...
 

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