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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> I quit judo and its silly ass rules


6/6/10 5:38 PM
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gbutts
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so now the judo high rollers don't won't you to do pickups that resemble a suplex. that's right don't lock your hands together and do pickups even when you are doing counters. why is it that every-time Japan starts getting their ass kick the judo high rollers change the rules. for example, russians beat them with leg picks and firemen's carry. They change the rules, no more leg picks, don't touch below the waist. The Dutch beat them with same side gripping, now you have 5 seconds to attack. And now no more suplexes because the Mongolian's are beating them with upper body locks.
6/6/10 7:20 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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While i agree with your frustrations, i will correct you on a few things...

1. The Japanese did not change the rules. They, in fact, had nothing to do with it. they have 1 vote (if that, for a time they had 0 votes in the IJF executive).

2. This was a rule change desired by Europeans entirely. Russia was one of the leading countries, as was France. Georgia was against it, but didn't really care much.

3. Please show me a high level counter in Judo where your hands are clasped. I made a part of my competitive life on counters and never locked my hands. It is actually far more effective to throw uranage with your hands seperated-- one hugging the hips and the other hugging the upper body.

4. Even with #3, I think the body-lock rule is stupid, as are all of these changes. But, do you not think every single conbat sport has periods of really stupid rules???? Look at boxing! Look at wrestling-- best of 3 rounds??? BJJ-- stall out the game of submissions...

5. Alas, these changes will most likely not last long, rules are changed every 4 years in all the Olympic sports. Why would Judo be any different? After 2012 we will have more adaptations to make.
6/6/10 8:00 PM
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judoblackbelt
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I love judo and will train until I can't in spite of the tules. What bothers me is the leg grab rule should be changed to Shido for a touch/grab, not DQ. I can see where a complete throw from an initial leg grab is DQ. I winch everytime I see this call, especially at the local/developement level. Thanks,
6/6/10 9:31 PM
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gbutts
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Edited: 06/06/10 9:54 PM
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hmm
6/6/10 9:50 PM
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gbutts
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JoshuaResnick - While i agree with your frustrations, i will correct you on a few things...

1. The Japanese did not change the rules. They, in fact, had nothing to do with it. they have 1 vote (if that, for a time they had 0 votes in the IJF executive).

2. This was a rule change desired by Europeans entirely. Russia was one of the leading countries, as was France. Georgia was against it, but didn't really care much.

3. Please show me a high level counter in Judo where your hands are clasped. I made a part of my competitive life on counters and never locked my hands. It is actually far more effective to throw uranage with your hands seperated-- one hugging the hips and the other hugging the upper body.

4. Even with #3, I think the body-lock rule is stupid, as are all of these changes. But, do you not think every single conbat sport has periods of really stupid rules???? Look at boxing! Look at wrestling-- best of 3 rounds??? BJJ-- stall out the game of submissions...

5. Alas, these changes will most likely not last long, rules are changed every 4 years in all the Olympic sports. Why would Judo be any different? After 2012 we will have more adaptations to make.


I am frustrated and just because Japan does not have an open vote does not mean they are not controlling things behind the scene. I find it very hard to believe that the europeans would willingly vote to stop using the techiques which have given them so much success.
I have compete at an international level in sambo and wrestling and locking the hands give you more control when doing uranage and body lock throws.I agree that all sports change their rules; however, they don't omitted the techiques of their sport.
It is already hard to get people to stay in judo, these rules are driving people away. Where is the next group of elite players going to come from if the rules make them flock to other sports?

today my 16 year old daughter, who is a top junior player and has been doing judo for 13 years, told me she rather do mma and grappling because of judo rules limiting the techiques she can use. I am sure other junior players are thinking the same thing.

hopoefully the judo high rollers come to their sense or get some common sense and stop project their personal preception of what judo should be. like you said these rules are stupid.

btw good luck with your new team.
6/6/10 10:39 PM
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gbutts
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Edited: 06/06/10 10:43 PM
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just call me gary or butts i feel really old when you call me mr. butts.
they keep saying that it will improve judo but how is more rules and less techiques improving anything. i am glad we still have grappling.
6/7/10 2:52 AM
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Bently
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I was at a small shiai in British Columbia, and was told by one of the BC higher level refs that new interpretations were coming down that would not penalize incidental contact below the waist by hands. He had us call it that way at the shiai as well.

He seemed optimistic that more modifications were in the queu in the near future. I hope he is correct.

Ben Reinhardt
6/7/10 8:01 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Source for the "no locked hands" rule? Because the IJF website doesn't have that, nor does the PDF file listed.

I'm one of the first to think the new no leg grabs rule is bullshit. But, let's only crucify the IJF for what it has actually done.
6/7/10 7:40 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Glenn, you should have read the original thread on this about the rule changes that have been implemented. I, in fact, am one of the biggest faulters of the IJF for this, and I think it's the only thread in JudoGround history to go over 200 posts.

That being said, my question was, hat source does the OP have for saying that another new rule (no locked hands) is being implemented?
6/7/10 9:02 PM
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OCJudoTrngCtr
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Orange County Judo Training Center, OCJudo.com Team
Neil Adams YouTube series on the IJF rules mentions the penalizing of clasping of hands on his Ko Soto Gake video.

www.youtube.com/watch

Link to Neil's YouTube account for other videos

www.youtube.com/user/NAEffectiveFighting
6/7/10 9:58 PM
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judoblackbelt
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I am glad to hear Ben R. on the incidental touching of the leg being changed. This made no sense what so ever when I observed contestants receiving hansokumake in local tournaments and the Nationals. Not soon enough.
6/7/10 11:22 PM
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gbutts
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Edited: 06/07/10 11:24 PM
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<blockquote>CaptainSaveAHo - Judo is afraid BJJewrs will enter and Pwn them at takedowns.<br /><br />/thread over.</blockquote><br />

dumb a**
6/7/10 11:26 PM
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gbutts
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CaptainSaveAHo - Judo is afraid BJJewrs will enter and Pwn them at takedowns.

/thread over.

I don't understand why you are trying to turn this into a judo vs bjj issue. you must be a bjj novice because people who have being do bjj for a while would not make ass themselves like you so often do. If you don't like judo stay off this forum. btw do you even know who captainsaveaho is.
6/8/10 8:06 AM
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Empire
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butts,

don't listen to that guy. he's a troll here.
6/8/10 8:53 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Can't find the video Glenn, one of the numbers/letters must be off. I would first like to see BJJers enter judo contests before we can determine if we are afraid of them.
6/16/10 5:24 PM
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Kirkor Papasian
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 too many rules have ruined a once amazing art.
6/17/10 7:53 AM
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Jorx
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This makes me very sad.

I'm a bjj-player now fight a bit MMA. I used to train judo and spar with judoka to improve my standup grappling.

Now it's useless, cause I have to delibaretly eliminate some of my most high% attacks from BJJ and MMA and I don't need "wrong" reflexes.
6/17/10 5:31 PM
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Mr Mike from NC
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"Judo is afraid BJJewrs will enter and Pwn them at takedowns."

/thread over.

Since when has the typical BJJ player been know for his take-downs? If anything, it's a weakness for BJJ players. Ever heard of butt-flopping?

When Maiea took on Silva, his tremendous ground game was shot due to his inability to perform a take down. If a top guy like Damien can't take a striker down, I doubt the average BJJ player can do any better, especially against a Judoka.
6/17/10 11:13 PM
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Mr Mike from NC
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For those Judoka who don't like the new rules, you might be interested in supporting AAU Free-Style Judo. Do a search for Steve Scott, especially his interview on the Judo Podcast.


6/18/10 4:09 AM
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nowaydo
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 http://freestylejudo.com/2010/03/15/freestyle-competition-rules/

6/20/10 4:49 AM
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Jorx
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Wow this freestyle judo looks really great... any chance this will really catch on?

About the comment of learning something new - I need to be able to execute my A-techniques without thought process when I get the ideal setup. If I need to involve some thought process in that I feel it really hampers my game.

If I want to learn something new then specific drilling is for that - but that's not why I went to train and compete in judo.
6/20/10 9:55 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Why not just enjoy the sport for what it is? Having to be skilled on the ground and standing is a challenge in itself. I am better ground fighter but do not try and take it to the ground. What makes judo special to me is the throwing and transition to the ground.
6/20/10 2:03 PM
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Jorx
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FlopsyBunny - ever hear of GSP;)?

I was never into much a "low shoot" in judo context... Liked single legs though, high crotches etc...

They banned kata guruma for -whatever's- sake! And "no locking hands around the waist" - who can argue FOR that rule?
6/22/10 3:26 AM
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judom
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Most people on this thread don't know what they are talking about again.

If you are good in judo before changes, you will be good in judo after changes. Period.

Igor Maharau that was an olympic champ with a single technique, the leg grab is the new european champion again, with the new rules.
6/22/10 7:19 PM
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judom
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glenn,

that is not true at all. As I said, people who did kata-guruma keep doing it. Same goes for leg grabs.

You just need to set it up properly. People who have sound, good judo, with proper grips, fluid movement and good combinations, will always have good judo, regardless of the rules.

Why would you quit judo over rules ? That is crazy, in practice you can do anything and in competition you slightly need to adjust, that is it. I can assure you judokas who did leg attacks train exactly the same way as before, with only slight adjustments.

Do see Igor Maharau's matches, they are quite instructive.



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