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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> I quit judo and its silly ass rules


6/29/10 1:13 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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and glen...

piss off. anybody with a brain can tell you that what i typed above is completely true. it is common sense that people train within their rules, but the degree to which changes in the rules alter the training is very much up for debate.

i do not understand how you don't get that, and I sure as hell don't get what gives you the idea that comparing judo to bjj is not apples to oranges for competitive training purposes.

i dont know when i have ever seen somebody preparing for BJJ by doing max weight squats, explosive or medium endurance training... hmph, perhaps something determined by the rules. Just like what techniques are legal and how you'd plan a strategy.

but, how much any given rule change alters how people across the world train and compete is very much subjective. personally, if i was still training, this rule would bother me quite a bit more than it would most people-- but I still would not lose to people who i'd otherwise beat or beat people i'd otherwise lose to. that's what you don't get.

you don't get how these rule changes have not dramaitcally altered the way people train. you seemingly have a ton of ignorance about what goes into training at a high level-- all the parts that need to come togehter. you are insisiting that these changes impact the very fundamentals of every part of competitive Judo... If that was true, then there would be major shifts in the competitive results worldwide-- there have not been.

thus, despite that the rules dictate how you train and what you do-- changes in the rules do not have to necessarily alter the way people train and compete.

i am not being juxtaposed or contradictory. seemingly just far beyond your ability to comprehend.
6/29/10 2:52 AM
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barroids
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TTT for Mongolian athletes, sadly life over there for most people is prehistoric. One of their nationals damn near shattered my knee at Kodokan (he only came twice and seemed unhappy LOL). Been a fan ever since.

By the way on a club level note, the new rules have somewhat widened the divide in our club between the purist faction (who have gotten emboldened) and the sambo-wrestling-mma faction (who had international credentials). NOT blaming the rules themselves, but it's empowered some people to get more vocal with their opinions.
6/29/10 7:32 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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allcloser, the rules on same side are much like the rules on belt gripping, etc. While there isn't a hard and fast "5 second" or "6 second" rule, it is totally up to the referee if a player does an authentic attack using the grip. Since it has become so subjective to the referee's opinion, I know of few players who will do a same side grip at all, except for the "one handed, spinning in and my other hand just happens to land on the same side while I'm doing my harai/uchimata/etc" throw.
6/29/10 7:56 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I do have to say, I am disappointed that all of glenn's posts seem to have disappeared. Don't know why it was done, but I don't like posts being struck in general, unless they happen to contain things like porn, racism, etc. Disagreeing or trolling words should not be struck from a thread en masse.
6/29/10 7:58 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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CS... I agree, most players who will take a x-grip will do so knowing that they are in danger of taking a penalty, but want to be highly offensive and will assume the risk.

there is also the camp that, smartly, says "i'd rahter take the x-grip shido than be outgripped and dumped for ippon." Pedro was often willing to take the x-grip or stalling shidos early on so he would be able to stay in the match up until the very end-- where his conditioning was superrior and he could capitalize on that.
6/30/10 1:39 AM
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judom
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That is one I think I found with really good players: they usually do not switch grips at all and also the grips are not so tight that you cannot move. So they allow you to move around a little bit. Then, when you start moving and expect move 1, they hit you with move 2, from the same grip. That can be really tiring, anticipating multiple moves from the same grip, even if you know something is coming. There was one coach that was a left-handed and I was always expecting and uchi-mata or osoto-gari, and he always got me with a foot-sweep, all from the same grip.

6/30/10 6:57 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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JoshuaResnick - CS... I agree, most players who will take a x-grip will do so knowing that they are in danger of taking a penalty, but want to be highly offensive and will assume the risk.

there is also the camp that, smartly, says "i'd rahter take the x-grip shido than be outgripped and dumped for ippon." Pedro was often willing to take the x-grip or stalling shidos early on so he would be able to stay in the match up until the very end-- where his conditioning was superrior and he could capitalize on that.



Never did understand why the x-grip was penalized anyway. It doesn't overload one side or another (on a side note, I love it when the BJJ guys do that to me in practice. They just don't know how many openings they leave me!), and while it gives certain throws advantages, it also disadvantages the player just as much.
7/1/10 4:46 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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CS... stalling. that's why.
7/1/10 7:27 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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JoshuaResnick - CS... stalling. that's why.



That is so idiotic. Honestly, call the stalling penalty. Don't outlaw the grip.
7/4/10 4:38 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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I can understand that reasoning. when people take those grips and stall they create an inability for the opponent to do anything-- i think that was theu really real issue when yocome down to it.
7/4/10 11:05 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I guess, it again Josh comes down to calling the existing penalty in place. There's no need to make up a new rule for it.

Kinda my same view on the rules on leg grabs. If someone is face diving for a leg in order to stall out, you call them on a stalling penalty. If, as a judoka, you don't like it because you can't stop someone from doing it to you, then you get your judo better.

The only penalties I think should exist are safety penalties (no spiking, kani basami, etc), a penalty for stalling (that I would also enforce on those whose idea is to do the drop seio-turtle once they have a yuko advantage), and a penalty for anti-judo spirit (for cursing, etc). Narrows it down to about ten different penalties, of which only two are up to interpretation.
7/7/10 4:13 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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I think the issue with your idea is exactly what you said... "interpretation." when the penalties are not specific enough to be explicit with exact lines then you put too much power in the hands of the officials.

personally, i'd like to go back to the rules from the 88 Olympics, but with today's dynamic borders, sumi being allowed to score, tons of newaza time and the restrictions on overly tight gi's.
7/7/10 7:20 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Josh, while I understand your point of putting too much power in the rules of the officials, I think the opposite, where players use overly specific rules to finagle BS (like the guy who admitted taunting a leg grab to get hansokumake) is worse.

As much as I dislike refs like Rashwan, I think it's better than the alternative.

As for what you'd like for the rules, I agree, although I personally have no problem with "overly tight" gis. While a practically skin tight gi is no good, it's better than the Army tent that I currently fight in, because the rep said it was the proper size to fit current IJF rules for me. Maybe somewhere in between.
8/5/10 12:39 AM
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Balzac
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Edited: 08/05/10 12:39 AM
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I don't like the new rule changes because it's crazy to cancel the usage of kodokan judo techniques as primary moves in competition. If they want to encourage stand up judo and eliminate the stalling, allowing more points for throws would be fine. Disqualifying someone for grabing the legs is too much. Anyhow, people will adapt but these techiques are part of judo and if they are safe to perform then they should be allowed as primary moves.<br />Scott Smith and Kenny Brinks did host this year and the last two national tournaments. One is the freestyle judo and the second is the AAU grand nationals in Missouri. The events allowed leg grabs thus there were sambo and BJJ players present at the events. Being from Oklahoma, I competed in both since I live a few hours away from Kansas City and the events were very well run, competitive and the best part was the quality of the referees.
8/11/10 2:33 PM
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walknazty
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I have not read all responses in this thread so this might have been answered.

Are throws such as morote-gari and kata-guruma completely banned or can they be incorporated into a combo or counter?
8/11/10 2:40 PM
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nowaydo
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8/13/10 8:59 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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nowaydo - banned



Incorrect. Both throws are allowed in very clear situations. One, as part of a combination. Second, as part of a counter technique. Third, and this I think is quite strange, if your opponent has pulled you into a "head under arm" type position.

While I disagree with the rules, let's not make even further errors on them.

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