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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> attn: judom re: Georgian culture


6/21/10 12:51 AM
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barroids
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For judom or anybody familiar with Georgia:

Here's a video from Georgian national TV of Zurab Zviadauri being treated like a big celebrity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TTFUrF_FoU

Are world-level judo players household names in Georgia? Even in Japan only a very few gold medal winners are household names.
6/22/10 3:24 AM
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judom
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Hey,

I have not been to Georgia in a while, but in general, yes.

The Olympic gold medalists are definitely very well known, especially in judo and wrestling. In general, in Eastern Europe and Russia, IMO, top wrestlers and judoka are usually well known, especially wrestlers.
6/22/10 3:36 AM
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barroids
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I heard that Khabarelli only went to judo because he couldn't make the Olympic wrestling team. Is it true that the very best Georgian athletes are in wrestling?

Also, how do you think Georgia with only 3 million people was able to produce like 50% of Soviet athletes, and still produces gold medalists even in political/economic turmoil? Is it genetics or their culture? (My Russian friend says Georgians have thick bones "like gorilla".)
6/22/10 11:37 AM
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Punk Dobbs
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LOL. I know some Georgians who are very clean and articulate.
6/25/10 11:56 PM
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judom
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barroids,

Wrestling attracts some of the best athletes. But recently, judo does too. One national coach in wrestling told me recently, quote "I can't believe how many kids this judo attracts" ..he was not happy. :)

In general, judo in these regions has the 'wrestling' philisophy: just wrestle, put on that damn gi and go. And go for hours. That is the mentality. In the west, I've seen a lot of people philosophizing about this technique detail or that technique detail, but that is not that important actually.

They key is to wrestle/judo and a lot of it, that is about it. Now that I think, its almost the case that almost noone showed me many techniques. The coach just wrestles with you and lets you take openings when they are there. But lots and lots of wrestling with different partners. I've had sessions when I wrestle for 15-20 randoris, basically hours and hours..then 30 min break..then again...and again...

A lot of people get too complex with judo or wrestling or lately this BJJ/MMA: special camps, what not. Forget it, just wrestle. I think that is the main secret to success.

6/26/10 3:13 AM
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barroids
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TTMFT! You just got me pumped up for all randori Saturday practice. I promise to puke or get seriously injured, whichever comes first.
6/26/10 3:01 PM
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HoldYerGround
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judom - barroids,

Wrestling attracts some of the best athletes. But recently, judo does too. One national coach in wrestling told me recently, quote "I can't believe how many kids this judo attracts" ..he was not happy. :)

In general, judo in these regions has the 'wrestling' philisophy: just wrestle, put on that damn gi and go. And go for hours. That is the mentality. In the west, I've seen a lot of people philosophizing about this technique detail or that technique detail, but that is not that important actually.

They key is to wrestle/judo and a lot of it, that is about it. Now that I think, its almost the case that almost noone showed me many techniques. The coach just wrestles with you and lets you take openings when they are there. But lots and lots of wrestling with different partners. I've had sessions when I wrestle for 15-20 randoris, basically hours and hours..then 30 min break..then again...and again...

A lot of people get too complex with judo or wrestling or lately this BJJ/MMA: special camps, what not. Forget it, just wrestle. I think that is the main secret to success.



That is interesting because in the book Russian Judo, they said the Soviet team spent something like 60-70% of their time just drilling techniques again and again and only like 30-40% of their time actually doing randori.
6/26/10 3:06 PM
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judom
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HoldYerGround,

I don't know about these generalizations. I am not talking about full-out randori. With some guys, they go where the randori is almost like practicing drilling: they give you openings and you see if you can take them, with others you go 80%, with others it is trying 1 specific technique. When you do randori 2 hours, you don't go the same with everyone. It is not as if you do 2 hours randori at the same pace all the time. Also, when you get super tired, you cannot do that anyway.

6/26/10 7:24 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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What he is describing is basically situational randori, which in some circles is considered technical training.
6/26/10 10:10 PM
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barroids
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Edited: 06/26/10 10:17 PM
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What is the method in Eastern Europe for conditioning? Just lots of randori?

As you know from reading the UG, it's common these days for ordinary people (not even real competitors) to be obsessed with elaborate conditioning programs. Actually it's perverse that people are paying $$$ to join special gyms where they do "old school" training such as chinups. I know "fighters" who spend 1 hour just to bring a fucking tire to a public park (where there are kids around) and hit it with a sledgehammer. I guess that is the reason why Fedor is so good....
6/27/10 11:54 PM
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judom
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barroids,

I think that is actually one aspect that can be improved with more systematic methods. It is quite individual.

Usually, physical strength is not a problem. Many people are just naturally really really strong. Some lift weights 2-3 times a week. For cardio, running in the morning and lots and lots of randori are the main methods. Each judo dojo usually also has ropes to climb and chin-up bars, so people climb those. Some judoka do 20-30min person lifting at the end, like squatting another person and walking with them. The emphasis is on functional strength. We had one guy, he was on the junior national team and was a pure monster, may be 15-16, and he did 50+ chin-ups regularly after practice, and was full squatting the 120kg+ judokas easily. He was may be 66-67kg and his neck was like Mike Tyson. When I asked him did he do weight training, he said no: just wrestle (e.g. just judo/sambo). Not very hard working and dropped from judo, but sometimes you get kids like that. They are just pure monsters.

One thing I did when I trained seriously is weight training mixed with judo. That is, do weight training right before randori. Then you are tired so you must rely on technique. I found my technique improved massively with this method.

There is a whole slew of bodyweight exercises with another person that we did, but those are hard to describe in text.


6/28/10 12:59 AM
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barroids
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Edited: 06/28/10 1:06 AM
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What about European competitors after they're 30 and the window of opportunity has closed? You are kind of in this situation right? What percentage completely drop out of judo? What percentage keep themselves in good enough shape for Masters competitions? Are they welcome in their old club?

Also in combined national camps, like for example Bulgaria and Poland or something, does everybody communicate in English?
6/30/10 9:16 AM
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judom
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Former international competitors (I am not one, I was only at national level), some still compete, some give up judo. But many still train and compete. The ones that I know who still compete, they train in normal clubs. There is not much emphasis in training them like the young ones, they are on their own. Some are really really good ! So they compete in Masters and yes they are welcome in their old club. I, for instance, have not trained judo almost at all seriously after I stopped competing. I need to get back to it. :)

Actually, recently, many players who failed to make internationals are looking towards MMA as an alternative career choice, but right now, they are far from the top guys.



6/30/10 9:17 AM
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judom
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Actually, there are many players who are extremely good, but they are like 32-33, and they can't take the training camps in order to participate in the worlds or olympics, just physically. Some resort to drugs for recovery, but most retire. Technically though, they are better than most of those who go to Olypmics or Worlds.
6/30/10 11:33 AM
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barroids
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Many people told me that in Eastern Europe, one career choice after judo is organized crime. Is this common? Actually this was shown on the documentary "Yenesey River Expedition" where some North American guys went down the Yenesey River in kayaks, and landed in some Siberian city where gangsters let them stay in their house. Everybody said the big "enforcer" gangster was a former judo player. (They were serious criminals with guns who ran the whole town and had their own cemetery.) Anyway is this really a common thing?

(Where I live, major organized crime own MMA gyms and have MMA teams named after them. The gym is like their hang out place. Police sit outside and watch these places.)

6/30/10 12:14 PM
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judom
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barroids,

yes, this was common before, may be few years ago. Now, not so much. The economy is picking up and there is just no place for such obvious nonsense or they won't get say EU money and they are dead.

That said, in fact, there are some highly successful businessman that are former judoka and wrestlers and their business is shady. However, they do help judo and wrestling. I know some who donated massive amount of money to build new training centers, their kids train there, etc.

6/30/10 2:03 PM
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barroids
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Do you think sambo, with emphasis on deep grips/belt grips/leg attacks, is better preparation for MMA than traditional judo? (Not taking into account the athletic level of top judo competitors, I mean for ordinary local competitors.)
6/30/10 2:14 PM
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judom
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barroids,

Yes, I think so. Sports Sambo develops more power than Judo due to the more versatile grips and also due to the other person being allowed to defend with arbitrary grips. The Judo game is faster than Sports Sambo though.

However, the problem with allowing all kinds of grips is that people rely on the gi' a lot in Sports Sambo. In Judo as well, but Judo encourages to keep the same grip and attack from there, not to switch too much. This can be good for MMA, where you have multiple attacks from the same grip. Some grips, like long over the back grips are not applicable to MMA.

6/30/10 2:55 PM
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barroids
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TTT and thank you, you are one of the most informative posters in 10 years on the UG.

OK I've been on the internet too much lately, I have to stay away from the UG and internet and do real training instead, peace!
6/30/10 4:39 PM
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sta94
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Great info, thanks guys!!!
7/2/10 12:17 PM
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HoldYerGround
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judom - HoldYerGround,

I don't know about these generalizations. I am not talking about full-out randori. With some guys, they go where the randori is almost like practicing drilling: they give you openings and you see if you can take them, with others you go 80%, with others it is trying 1 specific technique. When you do randori 2 hours, you don't go the same with everyone. It is not as if you do 2 hours randori at the same pace all the time. Also, when you get super tired, you cannot do that anyway.



Thank you, that is interesting and new information to me. I have heard about how the Georgians train and it has always seemed to be something about how they fight all the time.
7/2/10 7:26 PM
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JohnSerbin
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 Absolutely the best thread I have read in a long time. Thanks judom and barroids for the great discussion!!!

TTT

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