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SurvivalGround >> Shooting thru the hostage?


6/23/10 11:31 PM
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BKhd
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 flipping channels and ended up on S.W.A.T. to see a scene where a hostage gets shot through the shoulder to hit the robber holding her from behind... got me curious how possible/ reliable this could be? seen it on lots of movies, which usually means b.s., but also know high velocity can easily go thru a body... how realistic is this? what calibre and distance would work best, why? gotta penetrate thru one and stop another, without destroying the first (.50cal)? s.w.a.t. was with a 5.56 thru the hostages right shoulder from 15-20 feet...
6/25/10 10:05 AM
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ILoveManTaint
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Lol. Ive been a paramedic for more than 10 years, responded to lots of gunshot wounds. There is never any gaurantee when a body is struck by a bullet. Hollywood loves to "put one in the shoulder" and have that person walk it off, but that doesnt happen.

Smaller bullets tend to riccochet off of bones and strike several organs. Larger bullets carry a lot of kinetic energy (mass+velocity) and cause cavitation. This is when the energy surrounding a fast moving object creates a temporary cavity in whatever semi-soft matter it strikes. In our bodies this wreaks havoc with out soft tissue, muscles, blood vessels, organs etc, while still having enough energy to punch through bone.

Your shoulder and upper chest house your lungs and your subclavian artery and vein. Both very large vessels that never get ruptured in Hollywood because its bad for the plotline. Punching a hole in a lung (even if the lung isnt directly hit) can be catastrophic. Its treatable but there isnt any guarantee.

Beware of Keanu's advice and make sure

A. There is no other choice

B. The Hostage is expendable (not your kid)

C. No one is there to see you do it
6/25/10 12:18 PM
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ILoveManTaint
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BTW a 5.56 is generally a 55grain bullet coming out of that barrel at more than 3000 feet per second. That is a tremendous amount of energy to be absorbed (esp at 15-20 ft) and would be devastating when it struck.
7/1/10 10:52 AM
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ClayK
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phydeau -  Only the CO and the Weapons Officer ever knew if we ever ACTUALLY has nukes on board.




I find fault in the logic behind this statement. You mean to tell me that IF your ship was carrying special weapons that not a single FC/GM/MA/EOD/IS tech knew about it? Would the captain keep the weapon in his stateroom?
7/3/10 11:53 PM
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crobrun
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I can neither confirm nor deny....
7/4/10 11:38 PM
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ClayK
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phydeau, were you the CO or WO? If not, playing the I can neither confirm nor deny card can't be played. The I don't have a clue card is in your hand.

Explain to me the logic behind using a nuke in ASW?
7/6/10 3:03 PM
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ILoveManTaint
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Clay just got served
7/6/10 7:10 PM
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ClayK
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I've done my ASW time. 8 years active Navy. 5 as an AT working with the S-3, the last 3 working, lets call it "intel" for CENTCOM. I'm aware of "confirm nor deny". I'm just saying that what you said about only the skipper or WO knowing if they are carrying nukes is false. If the OIC of the EOD unit on board doesn't know about a weapon on board, it's not there. And I guarantee that they didn't keep in in the state room of the CO/WO, so therefore the ordie work station would know about it. It's not like the WO keeps that shit in his rack beside his pillow.

Not sure when the last time we went sub to sub warfare, either. you got some de-class info on that? Just curious on that part.
7/6/10 9:03 PM
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ClayK
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I'm not testing shit, so relax a bit, pal.

I'm simply stating that it is HIGHLY unlikely that only 2 people on board your ship knew whether or not it was carrying nuclear weapons.

yea, 90's and in to 2000's. Thus why I asked because it's not even discussed nor has it been in the last 15 years. So sure, you old salt, you've got me on that part.

And my CENTCOM job wasn't in the any air conditioned office, nor was my carrier time. I've sweat my ass off in the 120*+ heat on the roof of the carrier and put boots on sand.

My comments about the stateroom were based off the fact that weapons are housed in ordie bay ( at least on my ships) so someone else would have to know if they were on board.

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