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SurvivalGround >> Tell me about LIVING OFF THE GRID...


7/1/10 3:24 PM
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Kido777
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I've read a few great articles recently...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/creekmore2.1.1.html

http://www.newsweek.com/2009/12/27/survivalism-lite.html
7/1/10 3:53 PM
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paw
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 nice thread...with great input by kvr29
7/1/10 4:09 PM
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Jeff W
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thewellhungarian -  We just moved to a new hom with the intentions of getting off the grid, but we aren't there yet. I have city power, but it isn't neccesay, I have a battery back-up, inverter, and lots of windows. I don't really need power if it came down to it. The house would be bright during the day and dark at night. The Dryer runs off propane as well as the water heater and stove. I have a water well with an air pump running off a windmill. A big wood stove that heats the house quickly even in -35. There are about 5 lakes within walking distance.

   I think living off the grid would mean never having to need anything from town.  Maybe one day I will ge there, but it's expensive.I still have to go in to get groceries, although i could hunt more than I do, but  I need some veggies that won't grow at my altitude and climate. I still need propane delivered once a year, and plan on putting in an oil furnace this year so I don't have to depend completely on wood. I would like to put in solar seeing as I have part of a system already with the batts and inverter, but that will have to come in time. All taht matters now is that I am better of in a power outage or loss of services then probably 95% of the people in North America.<img src="http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh12/bhooper2/sophia049-1.jpg" alt="" /><img src="http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh12/bhooper2/sophia067.jpg" alt="" />


How are you "off the grid" when you are simply replacing the standard utility grid with a truck grid having propane brought in?

Is that a huge diesel pick up I see sitting next to the house?

Hippies....
7/1/10 4:14 PM
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Doomsday
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ttt for later.
7/1/10 4:25 PM
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LoganClark
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Edited: 07/01/10 4:25 PM
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Jeff W - How are you "off the grid" when you are simply replacing the standard utility grid with a truck grid having propane brought in?

Is that a huge diesel pick up I see sitting next to the house?

Hippies....


This has been noted already.

LoganClark - It tends to be a bit of a misnomer when people often heat with propane since they are using a transport grid but have the fuel trucked in rather than piped.


Dumbasses....
7/1/10 4:43 PM
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Big Pun
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That's why I hesitate to say off the grid. I just like to say we are going to live more simple.
7/1/10 4:48 PM
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LoganClark
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It is pretty difficult to go completely off the grid. You either have to create adequate storage capacity or cut back tremendously. It might just be more efficient to stay connected and try to create as much of your own power as possible. Living truly off the grid is best for extremely remote areas and those who move onto undeveloped land where extensive work would be needed to bring in utilities.
7/1/10 4:49 PM
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LoganClark
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I have to run now, but I'll try to give some more words to husbandry issues in the morning.
7/1/10 4:59 PM
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Teh Ringworm
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7/1/10 8:38 PM
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Luncha Libre
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http://www.daycreek.com/
7/1/10 9:41 PM
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thewellhungarian
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Jeff W - 
thewellhungarian -  We just moved to a new hom with the intentions of getting off the grid, but we aren't there yet. I have city power, but it isn't neccesay, I have a battery back-up, inverter, and lots of windows. I don't really need power if it came down to it. The house would be bright during the day and dark at night. The Dryer runs off propane as well as the water heater and stove. I have a water well with an air pump running off a windmill. A big wood stove that heats the house quickly even in -35. There are about 5 lakes within walking distance.

   I think living off the grid would mean never having to need anything from town.  Maybe one day I will ge there, but it's expensive.I still have to go in to get groceries, although i could hunt more than I do, but  I need some veggies that won't grow at my altitude and climate. I still need propane delivered once a year, and plan on putting in an oil furnace this year so I don't have to depend completely on wood. I would like to put in solar seeing as I have part of a system already with the batts and inverter, but that will have to come in time. All taht matters now is that I am better of in a power outage or loss of services then probably 95% of the people in North America.


How are you "off the grid" when you are simply replacing the standard utility grid with a truck grid having propane brought in?

Is that a huge diesel pick up I see sitting next to the house?

Hippies....
I never said I was off the grid,  I said we had intentions of doing it. And I doubt I will ever be fully off the grid, it's expensive and time consuming. It is a comfort to know that when the power goes out I still have heat, water, and food. I have a family to provide for; and all the basic needs would be met for me and my family in case of extended power outages; boil water advisories; ( or completely contaminated city water supply) or food shortages. By being "Off the grid" I think a lot of people just mean that they don't have to depend on the government or utility companies to take care of them and they're families in times of need. I like having city power, but it's not a requirement for my survival. I like having a Propane stove and water heater and Dryer, but again, not required.

I was living in Ontario during a very big winter ice storm. People were dying because they couldn't heat they're homes , or get to the store ( that wasn't open anyways). This was a power outage and bad weather for only 3 weeks. I may not be off the grid, but my family will be taken care of  in times when others won't be so lucky.

I am far from a smelly hippy, and yes that is my huge deisel pick-up, Deisel is free for me 90% of the time, it's the smart thing for me to drive living in the mountains on unpaved roads.
 
7/2/10 12:24 PM
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thewellhungarian
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 That outdoor cook area looks VERY nice KVR. If you did the work you did a nice job man, you should be proud.
what are you paying for solar panels for the needs you have?  how many? Do you put rotating motors on  a pole with them? or mount to the roof? How many batteries aer you running? and do you get a full charge on a summer day?  I have been recomended  golf cart batteries, have you heard of this?
7/2/10 12:40 PM
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Ghengiseanie
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Edited: 07/02/10 12:48 PM
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kvr29 - first thing you have to ask yourself is what is off the grid mean to you.

being off the grid is many different things to many different people.

A home in the suburbs can be off the grid with a inter-tie solar set up, you basically use the existing grid as your battery bank and put energy into the grid and draw it off as you need it. With a modern home it would be very difficult to get to a zero energy home, unless you had a solar array that covered your whole roof. Nice thing with a inter-tie system is you save the cost of batteries, bad thing is when grid goes down you still lose power. Another thing is people think that if you produce to much power the power company will send you a check. Thats a misconception, here in maine you get a credit that expires in 12 months if not used.

Alot of people will exchange one grid for another, that's the direction we are headed for know, basically all high electric usage appliance, dryer, stove, h2o heater are propane, some people even go with a propane fridge, so that the electricity usage is a minimal, basically lights and outlets and then the initial cost of sloar array is cheaper than trying to power a conventional home. So we are tying ourselves to the propane grid instead of the electric grid. You can get away from the propane grid with a woodstove. Here is a example of someone who built their own woodstove and put a waterbath around it for hot water and you can see how they dry their clothes





now if your being totally off grid, power, water, sewer, heat, then you would want to be out in the woods. The great thing about being off grid is land that alot of people consider poor to build on would be ideal for off grid. 4 miles from the power line? Not good for a home but good for a solar array. Land is sloping? Not good for someone who wants a flat yard, but great for building a earth sheltered home into with southern exposure. Around here those lots are very cheap.

two good books to start with are these






it can be done, good luck



Excellent post, beautiful house, VTFU! Much respect to you sir. Same to you wellhungarian, have you gusy considered geothermal energy?


BEETLEBANK, Earwig Green, does not sound the most attractive of addresses. But down a narrow, hedge-lined lane in the Weald of Kent, where half-timbered, tile-hung cottages and converted oast houses are the norm, is a stunning modern home of yellow brick, green oak, plate glass and slabs of crystalline schist rock... with a view down the upper Medway valley, with woods, fields grazed by cows, and the stately pile of Penshurst Place beyond.

"We are so lucky to live in this wonderful valley," says the owner, John Morrison. John and his wife Helen, both 58, have just moved in after 18 months of building work overseen by their son, Robert, who acted as project manager.

It is not the first home on this site. The previous house was a wooden Red Cross first-aid hut, erected in the First World War, that had been added to over the years. "When the wind blew, there were so many holes in it that the building whistled," says Robert, aged 31. "It was a pull-down job and start from scratch." And what a scratch it was – 7m (23ft) deep, served by three trenches for geothermal heating that were 50m long and 1.8m deep.

"The earth below the frost line remains at a relatively constant temperature, which equates roughly to the average annual air temperature," says Robert, who trained as an oceanographer. "Here that is 12C (53F). The trenches contain pipes in the form of loops that bring the water and antifreeze solution out and back to the house. A heat exchanger in the house heats the water for two storage tanks, one to service the underfloor heating pipes and one to provide hot water for the kitchen and bathrooms. Each night, Economy 7 electricity is used to heat the water to 60C or 65C, to prevent legionnaires' disease, but by the time the showers are used in the day the hot water temperature will be around 40C, about right for a shower."

Beetlebank is a lightweight steel structure with living space half above ground, half below. A central atrium brings light into the section below ground, which has a utility room, bedroom, media room, and an indoor pool and sauna full of natural light, supplemented by 100 low-energy LED lights. The pool has an underwater speaker. A cine-system can project TV or films on the wall. At ground level the living room has floor-to-ceiling glass doors that open onto a west-facing patio. The east side is all glass with a view towards Penshurst. There is an open fireplace on the north wall. The kitchen is open plan. On the south side of the atrium is the master bedroom with more great views. Another bedroom overlooks a water feature in the patio, across which is a two-man office.
Throughout, the flooring is of natural stone – crystalline oyster schist containing natural colours of blue and muted reds, with sparkling patches of fool's gold. The same stone is used for the adjoining patio areas. If you walk over this flooring in bare or stockinged feet, you can feel the warmth rising up.
7/2/10 1:03 PM
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thewellhungarian
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 I have worked with geothermal, I used to run heavy equipment and have run geothermal lines into basements and what-not. I haven't done too much research, but there are geo-thermal generators as well as geo-thermal heat. It is a big start-up expense, but that really isn't the problem for me. It's the maintenance. I would think it would take a pretty efficent tech. to repair and maintain these systems. For long term I have heard that it will save you money on you're bills, but can cost more than you save in repairs, and system replacement.

   You can get very small wood-burning boilers that will do the same, and I think I could weld a pretty decent one if I chose to. For me I don't think that that geo-thermal is in the budget. But might be a pretty good choice for some. research would be required to confirm what I have heard.


7/2/10 5:27 PM
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BJ Pencil
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ttt
7/5/10 3:23 AM
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LoganClark
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He got banned for breaking character.
7/5/10 5:02 AM
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Diken Cider
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 in
7/5/10 11:05 AM
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Lurken
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Thanks man, I don't know why the previous owners painted it all dark blue, and purple, and pink, But we have done some work since we moved in and we are really loving the place, you never realize how loud a city is until you hear the quiet of the country.

^^ amen. have had some quality surreal dreams while taking day naps recently. we just moved out.
7/5/10 4:16 PM
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BJ Pencil
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kvr29 -  casa de grand pa-pa is officially on-line and off the grid

<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4765007076_3b02e3b0aa_b.jpg" alt="" />


sweet digs. got any furnished pics? also, thanks for the kw calculation, that actually was very helpful.
7/5/10 5:20 PM
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thewellhungarian
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 Very Cool
7/5/10 6:58 PM
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Atomic Douchebag
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you guys better listen to people like kvr29 and get your shit together because after November 8th this year, life is gonna change like a motherfucker.
7/5/10 7:11 PM
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Dougie
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 Cool!
7/5/10 7:13 PM
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Mr. Legs
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Ttt forlater
7/6/10 2:53 AM
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Ghengiseanie
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 wow nice embed. 
7/6/10 2:57 AM
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Tyler Knight
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 ttt

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